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Discussion in 'International News' started by Matt in the Hat, Jul 21, 2006.
Hot topic. Keep it more civil than in Part 3 please
What no breakdown as to who had how many posts?
Getting lazy there Matt.
How about we just keep this to the topic and keep the history in the history forum?
I can see Annan's point, the problem is that while I wholeheartdly agree that the Lebanese are the ones suffering the most here, what can he offer to keep hezbollah under control?
I really don't see any cease fire for the next week unless the 2 hostages are released. That will be the first step needed for a cease fire. After all that is the flashpoint for what caused this current fight. Of course perhaps Israel can give up 2 hezbollah prisoners in exchange for their 2 people. I am not in favor of that because it will encourage more such actions against Israel.
As for a potential UN Force. What kind of force should be deployed. In all honesty it would have to be a force that can project power, and be strong enough so that neither side will be tempted to ignore it and try to take some action.
It obviously cannot be made up of US forces, perhaps German, Chinese, and a 3rd country as well. Most likely a 20,000 strong force at the min. with plenty of air and ground support.
Shabbat Shalom, muddafeckers! (c)
Well I am partial to both in this case. I mean. Israel wants to push toward river which happens to be the ancients way of seperations. I have it on pretty good authority. If successfully complete, Israel might leave a bag of salt. Country could even drop some sugar but I don't think. Situation would be solved.
Again what that hole region fails to acknowledge is this. After you kick some butt, the victor must show compassion. Just take a look at Germany. There are several soldiers whom end up with a bride from afar.
As for Lebanon, a victory here could lessen intentions. I mean really who wants to put food on table of millions in countries. With this victory it can show the Earth, it operates in modern times. The gurrella is a very strong opponent and tactics are its advantage. What is not to like? Now if these attacks spill over into USA. Lebanon better be on good side like them tourists!
Ahh, them wine was good.
Looks like many of IDF forces are at the border. Hopefully Lebanese civilian have fled and IDF can wipe out Hezbollah without many civilian casualties.
Agreed, but I wonder if hezbollah let many of them leave? They may force them to stay as a sort of human shield.
NY Times says that Israel asked the US admin the shipment of high precision laser guided bombs to be used in the current crisis, according to the source the US admin is trying to accelerate the approval and the shipment.
UN sources confirm that israeli troops are in lebanese territory near the border at least in 2 different places (Marwaheen, Maroun al-Ras) and that's where the ground fightings who claimed the lives of IDF soldiers (+ an unknown number of hezbollah militiamen) and provoked the collision of 2 apache copters took place.
IAF hit 70 targets in S. Lebanon during the night.
Thousands lebanese are fleeing from s. lebanon, the fleeing is difficult because of the destruction in the transport infrastructures and IAF raids. Yesterday a man, his 11 yo daughter and her brother who were fleeing with a motorcycle got hit by a missile, the 11 yo girl died. In many cars the fleeing ppl are exposing white flags to signal they're not combatants.
While the US admin is trying to speed up the deliver of high precision laser guided bombs to Israel, I guess to fill the arsenal being profusely emptied, bush says that Syria and Iran should stop giving aid to hezbollah saying that it would harm the possibilities of a longstanding peace.
Annan says that a ground operation to create a bigger buffer zone in south lebanon would be a grave escalation and in the long term would just fuel the resistence. i think we can see here two ways of seeing the things. UN's old school diplomacy vs neocon one... not the most succesful ones, both of them. I tend to agree with Annan, i am one of those who thought that the thought process behind the Iraqi invasion were mostly monomaniacal deliria detached form reality who would fail totally and create a far worse environment than the one they allegedly wanted to better.
I see this international neocon approach as a similar announced and useless failure.
To excuse the seemingly idiocy of certain stances and fake theorems it is also true that a good portion of what is said are just crappy embellishments to sell the product rather than the real agenda and interests in play.
Nahariya, Rosh Pina and Carmiel were hit by rockets this morning, 10 wounded reported.
The french foreign minister warns that a prolongment of the hostilities would mean lebanon's total destruction.
IDF has retreated his forces from Marwaheen, a UNIFIL source in the ground said. Those were very limited forces btw.
Ahmadinejad asks for a more active role by the muslim countries in helping to stop the hostilities.
IDF arrested 23 suspects in Nablus (West Bank), thousands palestinians are in israeli jails many of them without any trial. it has been statistically deduced that each palestinian family had at least one of its members spending a time in the israeli prisons.
Wars always provide economic opportunities:
This is just a sad state of affairs.
Israel is overstepping their bounds in a big way. Lebadon is failing as a state to curtail aggitators in its country.
I find it difficult to swallow that after all these years, it is a couple of kidnapped soilders that pushed them over the edge to such extreme actions.
Irsael is causing massive grief for citizens of Lebadon, peopl ethat have nothing to do with this pissing contest. Many have died already for being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
All of this action by Israel is so unneccisarry. Somehow i doubt they would be so bold if the US government wasnt in their corner.
All of this shit and the American intervention...i.e. support of Israel in this illegal operation...makes me very upset to live in this country.
Lately I've been thinking there's not as many entertaining threads on this board. Then I see this one.
Hold on hold on hold on. How is this operation illegal? What is the US doing other than fulfilling long standing obligations of alliance with Israel?
Well I agree, but the problem is that this leaves an impression that nothing is anyone's fault until the particular point in history that one side or the other wishes to deem as 'year zero'.
We have to revisit the past to learn lessons for the future and understand the various parties viewpoints which are functions of their history.
Anyway... strictly speaking YESTERDAY is history!
I think he's saying the operation itself is illegal... not the American support for it. Whether he's right or not is another matter.
I suppose it depends on whether you think it's legal to attack another country because some of it's citizens are doing something illegal even under it's own law, which I imagine is the case.
a man died and his 2 sons were wounded hit by israeli artillery fire in a druze village in SE Lebanon, previously hezbollah fired a dozen rockets from near the village.
Israel is striking at telecommunications antennas (tv and mobile phones) in Beirut and elsewhere.
25000 are the foreigner evacuees.
A militiaman and 3 civilians were killed in the fightings in southern Lebanon. Meanwhile 3 civilians died and 6 were wounded as a result of aerial raids in the area. It's not clear if the 3 civilians are the same ones cited before.
Caritas says that Beirut lacks even bread and milk. The situation is tragic. It's very difficult to get the things, lots of chaos. They hope for the opening of a humanitarian corridor to get goods of prime necessity.
UK, facing a great discontent amongst the PO for his soft stance on Israeli actions, warns Israel about the dangers of a ground war, asking for prudence and moderation.
A dozen israeli armoured vehicles entered lebanese territory.
The arab tv Al-Arabiya reports that an israeli tank was hit by hezbollah fire in Marun er-Ras 3 kms inside lebanese territory.
Israeli armed force warned the inhabitants of a dozen villages in s. lebanon to flee before 6 p.m. local time ie 1 hour ago.
hezbollah hit with artillery fire an israeli military base in Nurit near the town of Avivim. 1 soldier was wounded.
the UK foreign viceminister Kim Howells criticizes Israel's military offensive saying they should have targeted hezbollah not the entire lebanon. He adds that this is no "surgical operation" and that it's hard to understand the tactics being employed. He is the first british government representative to criticize Israel in this crisis.
Exactly! We all know how sticky Euros are in the matters of warfare legality. It's all white gloves and perfumed duel invitations for the Madames e Messiers.
Your army attacked by an enemy army? Pah! Zees eez no cause for le varr!
Until an Isralei Archduke is gunned down by a Lebanese student, no war! Especially with a perfectly nice and charitable organization like the Heezboolah. How atrocious and downright Jewish one has to be to attack a group best known for helping suffering female cats to deliver their litters. And helping kids off trees. Or on trees, we are still checking that.
So... Any Israeli archdukes killed? Ooh, I don't seenk zo!
Right. I am questioning his assertion that this action is illegal. When a state cannot control it's borders and that results in harm to another, the attacked state has all rights to retaliate.
I would like to see some legal text saying that Israel's actions were unlawful
Nothing could be easier:
jews and arabs killing eachother. Doesn't get better than this. They're the same race anyway.
Dude, you need to cool down a bit.
Isn't that the shit of it all? The only difference is that they believe in different fairy tales so the other must die. What bull shit.
Why do you think that Jews are always held to a different legal and moral standard than everyone else?
There is nothing in Judaism or Islam saying that the practitioners must hate each other. And most sane Jews are atheists anyway.
The shit of it all is that Jews have the audacity to claim a little piece of land which they have actually made livable.
Arabs are not anti-Semites. Merely an enemy.
Euros, on the other hand...