Sean and John attempted some analysis of the officiating in MLS on this week’s (5/24-25) MLS Wrap show. Their position seems to be something to the effect that MLS refs are giving out too many cards instead of more properly "just letting 'em play." First, Sean shows us a graphic indicating that the refs gave out 22 yellows (and five reds) during last week’s five games. (Actually, four of those five “reds” were second yellows - there was only one straight red, but anyway...) He and John then claim that twentysome cards in five games serve as obvious evidence that the refs are giving out too many cards. Given the level of physical play in MLS, I’d argue that 4-5 yellows per game is about right. That number of cards is not all unusual in many leagues, particularly in this part of the world (although Sean and John seem convinced that Scotland and England are the only other places where they play soccer). If the refs in MLS are indeed becoming less tolerant this year than they’ve been in the past, then that’s a good thing. Sean argues that fans don’t want to see a lot of cards. That’s true - but we also don’t want to see a lot of reckless tackles and cheap hacking. We also don’t want to see the endless dissent that’s become a defining trait of MLS. If the refs are cracking down on dissent and stupidly reckless or violent play, then great. We’ll see better soccer, fewer injuries, and less bewilderment from MLS players when refs in int’l play are less tolerant of dissent. And if the refs are actually becoming less tolerant, then there’ll be a period of adjustment when we’ll see more cards than in the past. But once the players start to figure out that they can’t get away with as much as in the past, they’ll adapt and we’ll see fewer cards. And better soccer. Second, Sean points out Hugh Dallas and Pierluigi Collina as examples of refs who you don’t even notice in a game. I’ll leave the Hugh Dallas example alone - suggesting him as an ideal really speaks for itself. But citing Collina as example of a ref who doesn’t become a protagonist in a game is incredibly preposterous. To the contrary, Collina provides an example of a strict, authoritarian ref who tolerates little nonsense and clearly establishes his control in a game. If anything, Collina’s been criticized earlier in his career for being too much of a disciplinarian. I agree that Collina is a consensus great ref - but for opposite reason that Sean suggests. The refs that you don’t even notice in a game are worthless weaklings like Kevin Terry who sleepwalk through at least a half and then - suddenly - find that the game’s out of control. See last night’s Galaxy x Wizards for a typical game in which the ref doesn’t bother to pull a card until the second half. That whole Ruiz-Garcia fiasco could’ve been avoided with a more assertive ref who establishes his authority early in the game. But, hey, Terry just lets 'em play. The MLS refs should keep bringing out cards to get the reckless tackling and tiresome dissent in this league under control.
Amen Anderson. What was really absurd was Harkes saying something to the effect that refs should take the reputation of the player or the impact a red card will have on the came into account as a primary factor--which, to me, is exactly the opposite of what good refereeing should be about. In Harkes' world Ryan Nelson shouldn't get a red card for clattering recklessly in after a stone touch because he isn't a dirty player. What? There are too many hacks in MLS that need to be shown the door. What's needed is more consistant refereeing so that players won't think that they can get away with murder and know what the limits are week in and week out.
The two headed monster that is Sean-John are idiots anyway. I just hope refs won't take what these fools say as any sort of public pressure on what they need to be doing in games.
What I think is silly is how a couple weeks Sean and John talked about how the refs in other leagues around the world are so much better. All leagues, big or small have troubles with refereeing. I just finished watching Flamengo vs. Paranaense end up 8 v 9 after some very soft reds. Last week I saw Celta Vigo play about 60 min. with 9 men. These are just random games in some top leagues. I have noticed that MLS is becoming very physical, and the best way to keep it from getting out of hand is to have players miss games, and make the appeal process very strict in overturning suspensions.
Harkes just needs to shut the hell up. Just because he played in thugball First Division and EPL doesn't mean we have to play the same way over here. His main thought was,"Just let the guys play." Meanwhile, let's encourage tackles that potentially end the careers of players.
I would also say that Sean and John's comments were, well for a lack of a better term, stupid. If anything they should be giving more cards to players that whine all the time like Carlos Ruiz. And saying that Hugh Dallas is a great ref is like saying The Beatles are the worst Rock n' Roll band ever. And speaking of Collina being an authoritarian Ref, did any of you guys see that one Euro 2000 match he Reffed that was tied amd he called a penatly kick near the end? I can't remember who was playing but I remember after he called the PK he was standing near the goaline and the fans were throwing all sorts of stuff at him and he just kinda stood there w/ a mean look on his face waving the players out of the box. That is why he's my favorite ref.
Yeah, Anderson, Brazilian soccer is too slow and not worth watching. I think that's what bothers me about how many American soccer fans and players have grown up with the game. Too much English influence, and INTERNATIONAL DOMINANCE from those English lads. I'm going to have to start counting on two hands how many World Cups they've won.
Re: Re: Refs and Cards in MLS Good point. The ironic point is that EPL soccer is now some of some of the fastest, most fluid, and most subtle in the world (moreso right now than La Liga or Italian league [IMO]). The alumni just haven't caught up with this fact yet. How about two fingers first?
I did a serch on Thesaurus.com for us. Here is what I found: brainless, dazed, deficient, dense, dim, dodo, doltish, dopy, dotterel, dull, dumb, dummy, foolish, futile, gullible, half-baked, half-witted, idiotic, ill-advised, imbecilic, inane, indiscreet, insensate, irrelevant, irresponsible, laughable, loser, ludicrous, meaningless, mindless, moronic, naive, nonsensical, obtuse, pointless, puerile, rash, senseless, short-sighted, simple, simple-minded, slow, sluggish, stolid, stupefied, thick, thickheaded, trivial, unintelligent, unthinking, witless About the only thing I can critisize MLS ref's for this season is consistency. They started off the year too lax then got burned for the no foul call against O'Brien. Now they have tightened things up. Harkes has rightly said that their mechanics could improve with respect to how they handle the players and show the cards but I'm sure that with the habits of defenders in the MLS that the ref's will get lots of practice. Good for them. MLS games would be more enjoyable if defenders had to play better individually and organizationally or get beat.
Re: Re: Re: Refs and Cards in MLS Exactly. Brazilian WC coach Perreira questions a player's ability to think the game when playing at such a high pace. I agree 100%. One can't think the game when playing that fast. It's a highly entertaining league with a style that doesn't often(once every 40 years I guess) translate to the international (WC) level. Got your smiley, but the two hand analogy carries much more weight. If Brazil wins another one, they'll have to count their WC victories on two hands, while England is stuck on one for a long while...
Well I've been calling for the cards for a while. The _first_ thing I notice when I watch other leagues is the lack of defenders crashing into a guy when he receives a pass. It's about time they started bringing them out. Still there was an absolutely brutal "tackle" on Justin Mapp last night that wasn't carded. Keep the cards coming. I'd rather they were too strict than too lenient. If they're too strict, at least that will open the game.
John Harkes is far from being an idiot. Only bigsoccer posters are. He is professional baller in England and USA. He knows what he is talking about.