Got to admire your sense of optimism. That’s why Mrs Scouse and I get out every Saturday with other optimists trying to get people’s attention. Then probably I’m the only one there who read up on the White Rose Society, Kreisau Circle or the Schulze-Boysen/Harnack group of the Red Orchestra. back in my teens. Thinking about what happened to them and where Her Drumpf is heading with his edicts on criticism of his regime. Can’t happen in America though. Can it ?
My statement that you quoted here was referring to the hardcore base - the ones who vote during the primaries for Trump and his ilk. You know the type: "No gays!", "No trans!", "No men in women's sports!", "No illegal immigrants!", "No abortions!", "More guns!". That is the shit that Republicans actually get done and none of it makes a positive difference in their lives. Yes, these are the people that get dragged along after they get stuck with a candidate like Trump. I was not talking about them in that quote. This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that Americans opposed to Trump aren't ready to be a dissident movement. First of all, why things like general strikes, civil disobedience or protests are supposed to mean in America "creating an autocracy through violence"? Maybe it is my perspective as an European, but here things like this happen all the time when the government does something shitty. In France, for instance, strikes are endemic. Eight years ago, in Romania, the government tried to pass a law easing up on corruption punishments: they were doing this for the benefit of the leader of the party in power (Liviu Dragnea, who was Speaker of the Chamber of Deputies at the time - although head of the governing party, he could not be prime minister himself because he had a suspended sentence for corruption), who was under investigation for corruption. The protests started on 18 January 2017, when the bill was only prepared. It was issued on 31 January 2017 and the protests immediately went into high gear: at their peak, there were 600,000 people involved out of a population of around 18 millions (in the US, that would equate with around 11 millions) and kept up the pressures until the government gave up. That was nearly a month of daily protests, not one day of "No kings". And, by the way, that government kept being plagued by protests throughout the years 2017 and 2018. The worst incident happened on 10 August 2018 when the police attacked a crowd gathered in front of the government's palace, 70 people being injured in the class serious enough to require hospitalization (and also 3 gendarmes). These protests slowly undermined Dragnea's credibility and legitimacy, nobody was killed during these events and the result was that he was unable to derail his prosecution as he intended and, in May 2019, he was sentenced to several years in jail, which was the end of his political career (and this led to the fall of the government that Dragnea was puppeteering just several months later). You don't even have to ask for the resignation of the government - just go after the most unpopular policies. Don't the American people have the right to "peacefully assemble and petition the government for the redress of grievances"? IMO, it was a mistake that the "No kings" protest remained vague in its objectives and did not focus on a specific grievance. What exactly would this look like? What does it mean "he is going to disappoint"? This paragraph sounds like you assume Trump would govern poorly and people would vote the Republicans out in 2026 and 2028. Nothing would make me happier if that were to happen. If it did, all this speculation becomes moot. However, how high is the chance that Trump and the Republicans are going to just stand aside and merely watch how they get wiped out in the next elections? They know that, if they lose power, they are going to be held accountable. Even if the Democrats wimp out again from prosecuting the malefactors, there are going to be civil suits galore and the worst of Trump's henchmen will have the fate of Rudy Giuliani. Why do you think Trump is using the National Guard for intimidation displays and is cajoling the military about the "enemy from within"? Trump’s coup attempt from January 2021 failed because he had no means to actually enforce it. Neither the law enforcement, nor the military were sufficiently staffed with loyalists and would not play along with Trump’s intentions. Several thousand MAGA nutjobs were not enough and it is likely Trump understood that. Right now, Trump and his cronies are trying to rectify this, so that when they need another election cancelled, they will have all the pieces in place. If strikes, civil disobedience and protests are not ok, how could a potential Republican refusal to recognize unfavorable electoral results be addressed? Sure, when I first asked the question "if Schumer and Jeffries were to call for a national strike now or a civil disobedience campaign, how many Democrat voters would join?", that did not mean something like this should happen tomorrow. However, the possibility has to be considered if you are dealing if a government that takes incremental steps towards installing an actual dictatorship. The problem of the American opposition is not "cowardice". The worst thing than can happen right now to a protester is to be roughed up by the police. The problem is the lack of patience and perseverance.
I'm pretty sure @spejic has me on ignore. But in the off chance he doesn't. You're wrong on the protests. People want to be a part of something. Giving them something to do is galvanizing. Pro-democracy movements that are successful always include mass, peaceful, protest.
This is how the Right silences criticism... by adding their views to people who claim the left but are really bloodless centrists or outright conservatives posing as Dems angry at the left. Notice how he claims to be reality based but his tiny brain could not grasp the idea of fascism taking over his country. It's like I told Kazuma. Education is a state function, so the country is ********ed anyhow because slipshod history courses. Stop trying to save anything until that gets fixed. Let America destroy itself and have a chuckle. Especially now that you're safer overseas.
Can we all really get along, and come together, as a strident voting bloc, fighting together for the things we believe in? Or would we rather just attack each other "as Rome burns" and have a chuckle as America destroys itself. Reading your posts reminds me of why we're doomed. How can we hang together when we hate each other for the disparities and differences that exist among us? I might've been too naive about this.
The future was never that bright to begin with. Dumping a fellow oppressed minority ain't gonna help.
If you can make red states reverse their decision on education, do that. If you cannot, then acknowledge that we're ********ed and be done. I don't have time to hate you, and as an oppressed minority, nothing I've ever done should cause you to hate me.
I don't hate you. My point is that Democrats are never coming back unless and until the progressive wing (wokies) and the centrists figure out how to come together to defeat our common enemy, fascism. Centrist Democrats have been steady and reliable whereas our progressive wing doesn't seem to know its ass from a hole in the ground, and here we are, trying to cobble together a winning coalition, and failing, spectacularly.
I don't think blacks and gays who overwhelmingly vote Democratic regardless of the candidate are the problem. Focus your ire on the white heterosexuals who have to be convinced to vote Democratic because ... reasons.
Did you listen to the Klein/Coates conversation? If so, I'd say you are taking the Klein position (somewhat sans Klein's reflection) without accepting that Coates has a legit view/argument. If you have not, go listen to it.
Ya know, you could just let the dipshits have their dipshit conversation over there in dipshit corner and ignore it. You could do that. Or you could take the bait. Again.
My ire hasn't been focused on blacks and gays. Gays I think supported Kamala in large numbers. There was an uptick in Black votes for Trump, but still maybe only 16-17%. My concern is more with uniting progressives and centrists, a divide which seem to be increasing.
There's a thread for this! And you might be right. I don't believe it, not yet, maybe by the end of 2028, we'll see.
Did did did you just make a Team America reference? NSFW (Move your mouse to reveal the content) NSFW (open) NSFW (close) I guess Democrats need to be d*cks
I think you are misusing "progressive" here. Most of the people here would identify as progressive, but we are certainly not the problem. The problem is the people who are single issue over all other issues. And those single issue voters will vote for only those who hold their specific views. It is the same on both sides, and I've come across people on the right who didn't vote for [insert Republican] because they didn't have an acceptable position on abortion or guns or something else. But, those who hold the single issue on the left of being pro-Palestine would not have changed the election. And single issue voters, I understand, rarely close politicians elections (@American Brummie can correct me on this). Those who found it the most important, but also viewed other things likely cost Harris the election. That is the problem, the priority, not the single issue (and this election is a bit unique in that the Israel/Palestine/Hamas war was so important, and overshadowed other typical important views such as the economy or health care).
How do you define "get things done" as it relates to Republicans. And how do you think Democrats just rolled over (the assumption being that Democrats didn't do very much)?
Yes, the Mamdani-effect. In a two-party system we can't win by supporting "Democrats" who are incapable of making the right decision when the choice is Trump vs Harris.