Referees to stop matches if players suffer racist abuse

Discussion in 'Euro 2012: Refereeing' started by Scrabbleship, Jun 6, 2012.

  1. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/06/euro-2012-referees-racist-abuse?CMP=twt_gu
    I really hope we don't see a player walk-off and/or a match cancelled.
     
  2. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll won't hold my breath on this one.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Talk about mixed messages: http://espnfc.com/uk/en/news/1088152/uefa-president-platiniyellow-card-players-leave-pitch.html

    Granted, he's right in Law. But this is about media relations and he's conveying two different messages. On the one hand, referees should sternly confront racism. But on the other, if a player feels racially abused and does not want to be subjected to it, the referee should sanction the player (presuming the referee did not hear the abuse).

    I'd also say this is an overreaction to the BBC report. Politics getting in the way of sport again, though the counter-argument to that would be that politics always plays a role in host selection.
     
  4. NC Soccer United

    NC Soccer United BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jan 25, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Politics getting in the way here??? http://espnfc.com/us/en/news/1089999/dutch-players-hear-racist-chants.html

    I have seen racism in a game in Serbia. Partizan Belgrade fans are trash. Awful stuff that I walked out of the stadium well before halftime and didn't even bother with the follow up of the game. I am not going to listen to whoo whoo whoo whoo all game long. Ignorant bunch of trash. This is pretty prevalent in Eastern Europe.
     
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  5. beachesl

    beachesl Member

    Oct 21, 2002
    Mendoza, Argentina
    So, what is to happen if match cancelled? Played the next day in an empty stadium, same locale? Has to be decided quick. What if it is the third match?

    Too much pressure on ref. Has to be a consistent and quick policy. A UEFA official in stands has to confer with refs and determine what is to be done, with a determination if the fans of a playing team is responsible (and then quickly award the match to the other team) . If Poland and Ukraine play in the match in question, there has to be a burden against them. Otherwise, it is all a joke.
     
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  6. SimpleGame6

    SimpleGame6 Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Club:
    Aberdeen FC
    Remember refs won't be monitoring people that are saying something to their friend. You'd have to shout a racial epithet loud enough to get onto the field. If you do it's likely an AR or an AAR hears it and reports to the referee who can tell the 4th to get someone over to that section maybe.

    If it's a concerted effort by many many people, yeah they'll call the game, because this is on live television and the mics are picking it up.
     
  7. Skippysasquirrel

    May 11, 2012
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What happens? Is it a forfeit 0-3 loss?
     
  8. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    In my opinion the game will either be cancelled or replayed the next day in an empty stadium. There will be no refund on tickets, so the money will have already been earned. There will be some additional costs of replaying the match, but if its played to an empty stadium the costs will be minimized.

    It can't be a forfeit, because who would get the forfeit? Most games won't have a home team and no team in Poland's group has a single black player.
     
  9. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    I actually hope it happens, the refs react as directed and everyone walks off the field. Racism is disgusting and if taking this stand makes it VERY public, then more power to them.
    I would hope, if the UEFA officials have made this statement, they have a very real plan to deal with it when it happens.
     
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  10. NC Soccer United

    NC Soccer United BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jan 25, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    I bet you they don't have a real plan in handling this. However, with all the issues before the tourney starts, I bet this tourney will go off without an issue. This is practically similar to the controversy surrounding Beijing 2008 Olympics and there were hardly any issues with the foreigners.
     
    OMGFigo repped this.
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think I've made a similar statement to this before, but here goes...

    I have a problem with this because you are highlighting one type of hate speech and putting it above all others. What if, for example, there was an organized chant taunting a player a week after his child died in a car accident or from a terminal illness? Would that not be just as offensive, personally, to the player on the field and his teammates? I understand that racism is a "societal" ill and that's why it's being targeted. But that can be done through fines, closed stadiums, future sanctioning, etc. If you are undoing or altering a result on the field--or postponing a match--because of one type of speech, you are opening up a can of worms and implicitly sanctioning other types of awful speech.

    None of this should be interpreted as me condoning racist chants (god, I hope that's obvious). I watched the BBC special and was appalled. Something needs to be done. But, foremost, if it was that big of a problem then the tournament never should have gone to Poland and Ukraine (so the fault lies first with UEFA). Second, you have stewards and police and other officials who can police and sanction the offenders. Either at the match or after the match. And if a particular federation needs to be punished, so be it. But when you start getting into questions about referees stopping or abandoning matches because of a particular type of speech from crowds in excess of 40,000... where does it start and where does the line get drawn? Ten people near the corner flag, does that count? Two hundred in the upper deck? The standards are so arbitrary and so dangerous. What if a group of fans behind one of the technical areas is abusing a black substitute consistently and relentlessly? If that's not enough to get a game stopped, what is? How many people have to hear what's going on? It's possible for a neutral or opposing fan or groups of fans to wreak havoc, as well.

    I just don't like the attention this issue is getting as an on-the-field matter. There are responsibilities that lie with UEFA, security personnel and domestic police agencies. Putting this on the field and directing attention on the referee is a way, in my opinion, for all those groups to shirk their responsibilities. Racism is disgusting, yes. But it's disgusting in every day life--particularly, it seems, for some of the groups that UEFA and others are worried about in Poland and Ukraine. Taking a stand and affecting the tournament due to it on-the-field is not the way to go if the goal is actually to cure these ills.
     
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  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    this, x 1000000.

    this is an absolutely untenable way to approach fan behavior in a stadium situation. sure, if missles are coming in, there's a fire or riot in the stands, then the referee will make a decision based on safety. otherwise, to put racism monitoring/sanction on the back of the referee is a total dump.

    i totally get the idea of fifa doing tournaments in emerging markets/countries. it spreads the gospel of sport. but, it should do so only with the guarantee- not promise- that the tournament will be held safely and that the spirit of the game will not be compromised by external forces.
     
  14. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    if that would be known to be the policy, then there will be orchestrated racism by fans of every losing team.
     
  15. Skippysasquirrel

    May 11, 2012
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's right. Didn't that happen with a former Yugoslav republic like Serbia like recently?

    No one is denying that racism should be allowed, we're asking what can be done about it? First of all, it's not always clear-cut. Second, it's difficult to punish ONLY those spouting off offensive speech. Third, what do you do if you have an entire section chanting? Throw them all out?
     
  16. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    I pretty much agree with everything MassRef said, however, UEFA has now MADE A STATEMENT on what they will do. You do "x", we will do "y".

    If you want the behaviour to stop, you have to follow through on what you threaten. Simple.
    They've picked obvious racist chants. If there is CLEAR use of it, then hopefully the refs follow suit, or UEFA admin officials pull everyone off the field.

    Worst case now, TV hears it, players hear it, eveyeone hears it. They do nothing about it.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair enough.

    But "Y" is defined. That's stopping the match and removing the teams from the pitch.

    "X" is not defined. What constitutes a level of racist chants that prompts "Y?" Is that being left up to the opinion of the referee without any detailed instruction? Or, if there are detailed instructions, what is the threshold of "acceptable levels of racism," because I guarantee one single racist chant is not the standard.
     
  18. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    That is probalby something we will never know. I would hope the referees who will be on the hot seat will ask that very question.
     

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