Can we have a thread to discuss the referees? In today's game, it really felt like Clattenburg was doing a great "see no evil" thing when it came to plays against us. Are there any stats to look at? Fouls called vs fouls committed....
I usually give refs the benefit of the doubt. A missed call or a generally shitty red is common. Today it actually felt like Clatt was sticking it to Jose. All the borderline calls went Burnleys way. The penalties sting the most but one of the worst calls was when they hoofed a ball forward and their striker just flung himself to the round without a touch from Rojo and Clatt gave it. And Herrera's second yellow was one of the worst cards I've ever seen given. It was clear as day that he tried to stop and slipped.
Two and for me only two calls by Clattenburg stand out -- the non-call on Darmian when he was clipped in the box and the second booking on Herrera. The rest were either correct calls or close enough to go either way.
If a Bundesliga ref did half of what Clattenburg did and cost Bayern Munich vital points, he would be downright send into matches involving lower teams or, worse, relegated into the second division. I can't believe we have refs out there who openly screw things up against arguably the biggest club in the country and yet remain unpunished for their incompetence.
Well, last month Henry and Souness said Clattenburg got it wrong by denying us two penalties against City - Ottamendi sticking his arm back to stop a cross and Bravos two footed challenge on Rooney. This month at OT he denies us a clear penalty on Darmian that even Danny Mills said was a pen and sends off Herrera for a slip which all pundits seem to think was wrong, plus apparently sending off your manager (who had dared to criticise you after the City game) for a private chat in the tunnel. When former Liverpool players are saying you are not getting penalties at OT from Clattenburg then Jose has a point ...
Graham Poll*'s opinion of Clattenburg -- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...anchester-United-fans-turned-against-him.html *who I always thought was the absolute worst
Redcafe has a thread about Mourinho being the target of the referees and the FA after the latest ban. For the life of me, I don't remember him ever having that much of a problem with the refs -- Sir Alex, yes, big problem. But you have to say, things are going well for Jose. Odd. I'd say that we're seeing the "Johnny Foreigner" treatment that managers get, but there are a bunch of other foreign managers and they don't seem to be treated the same way.
I'm delighted the refs are giving us a rough time. It is very annoying for now, but when we start thrashing teams it wont matter and the ABUs wont have anything to moan about.
I see it as the perfect storm for the FA. They have a manager they hate historically, and a club they hate historically, and the two are now together.
OK, i'm unsure if you guys think there is any value to this but thus far the calls we've not gotten in our favour are: Herrera slip and red card vs Burnley (EPL) David Luiz (studs → Fellaini) red card vs chelsea (EPL) Bravo (two footed studs → Rooney) red card + pk vs city (EPL) Winston Reid (high foot → Rooney) red card vs West Ham (EFLC) Adrián (studs to knee → Ibrahimović) red card vs West Ham (EFLC) tried to keep it to blatant ones. some other probable ones are: Flanagan+someone else PK(trip → Darmian) x2 vs Burnley [iirc] (EPL) Monreal PK (obstruction → Valencia) vs Arsenal (EPL) [people say he could have stayed on his feet and maybe yes but it was clear obstruction with no attempt to play the ball in the box. it doesn't need to be a hack down to be a foul] foul on Martial for the 1st goal v Watford (EPL) Pogba "dive" vs West Ham (EPL) am i missing any others?
The foul on Jones for the Giroud equalizer comes to mind. The Bravo foul wouldn't have been a red card and a penalty under the new rules. It would've been a Pk and a yellow. The Monreal pk was blatant for me. He was beat and I stuck his arm out and dove across Valencia. Other than the ones you've posted, there have been a lot of situations this season where our player is fouled and then an identical foul happens by one of our players later in the game and it's a yellow.
yes, you are right under the new rules that would be that case normally. but i think that goes under the ordinary foul rule. this was serious foul play that could have led to a bad injury so i think the red card + pk would be the correct outcome there. the Giroud one i never got a good replay on my stream. i saw Jones stumble forward but i didn't actually see what caused that
High boot to Rooneys face drawing blood in the last Westham game. Didn't affect the result but blatant PK.
The refs / FA calls about our managers terrible behaviour should be included; - saying reffing Man U v Liverpool would be "difficult" - talking to Clattenburg in the tunnel - kicking an innocent water bottle Multi touchline bans for these heinous crimes.
if this continues we can compile the list of blatant ones as we go along. not like some vendetta list about dropped points but more of a reminder or gauge of how we/Mourinho are seen and treated. i'm sure there are a fair few non-fans seeing this and thinking this is karma for the SAF years
are you sure about the bravo one? i was under the impression that was meant for only instances like 'denying a goal scoring opportunity' and not for instances like this one - where the player committed a tackle that was deserving of a straight red.
Watching Spurs/Swansea and Spurs just got a penalty. Looked like 2 players running for the ball to me, with the Spurs players running across in front of the defender and getting clipping/touched/diving. Don't think we'd get that call. Just seeing the replay now. Dive. But even if you can't see that angle, and the referee didn't have that angle, doesn't seem like it should be called.
Us getting preferential treatment under SAF is an ABU myth - plenty of pens etc we should have had under SAF we didnt get.
Agreed, clear push in the back, although you do those not called. The high boot was just ridiculous. That call and others, like the Arsenal one are the ones that make you ask questions. I seem to remember that someone analyzed his PK rates. Averaged out over a long period of time we were not getting unusually high rates of PKs once you accounted for things like our possession rates, time in the final third, goal socring opportunities (ie things that will generate more pks).
The Monreal non call is blatant in my mind. He may not have made a huge deal of contact or contacted with great force, but his intent and method were clear. I should think that upon seeing that replay the ref would be ashamed because it was plainly an attempt to impede Valencia and it wasn't anything like a tackle. There was no football in Monreal's actions.
Agreed. My problem with it is that from a football sense. You cannot set the bar anywhere near that, and have anything close to a managble game. If that tackle is legal. Or is verging on legal, you will have defenders doing that all day and all night. Everytime they are beaten, as Monreal was. It is a totally indefensible decision. And you can bet that if a United player did that, even in the same game, its a justified pk 100% of the time.