Referee vs. Costa Rica (R possible)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Zathras, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. Zathras

    Zathras Member

    Jun 16, 2003
    Minneapolis
    After all of the threads about horrendous referees, I believe that the referee tonight (sorry, his name escapes me at the moment) had a wonderful match. One of the best refereed games I've seen in a long, long while. :)
     
  2. WShine

    WShine Member

    Jan 19, 2005
    New Jersey
    You're right. Damn good ref.
     
  3. peledre

    peledre Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except for the fact the he gave 2 players cards for diving in the box when neither actually did.
     
  4. Liviu

    Liviu New Member

    Jul 12, 2005
    Illinois, USA
    He should be inducted in the Referee Hall Of Fame. There's also no question that he'll ref the World Cup '06 final. Incredible, just an awesome performance out there today.
     
  5. stinky

    stinky Member

    May 14, 2000
    Long Beach, NY
    i wept a good part of the game.
     
  6. Ray Luca

    Ray Luca BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Feb 2, 2005
    I know you have to kidding right? He let the Costa Rican players play through the man to get the ball without callling any fouls :)
     
  7. WShine

    WShine Member

    Jan 19, 2005
    New Jersey
    You're right that CR ran through our guys all night, but he called those fouls. Maybe he should have pulled some cards on them.
     
  8. Zathras

    Zathras Member

    Jun 16, 2003
    Minneapolis
    I beg to differ. Both were dives; while at least in Frankie's case there was contact, but he was going down well before the contact came. I am not certain about the CR dive. I believe Frankie also set up the card with his acting job when he was tackled earlier in the match (Which led to a deserved caution, but he was OTT.)
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's actually no question that he won't referee the WC06 final. Even if he were the best in the world--which he's not, but let's pretend--a Mexican refereed the 1990 final and it will be awhile before another Mexican does. Like it or not, politics still play a role. Gonzalez (Spain), Merk (Germany), Michel (Slovakia), Poll (England), Shield (Australia), Batres (Guatemala) Kamikawa (Japan) and yes, possibly even Brian Hall, if he somehow makes it to Germany (he's not, technically, a candidate) would all be in line to referee the final before Archundia.

    That being said, I thought Archundia had a hell of a match and deserves a spot in Germany.

    As for the diving (and the complaining about the cards), I posted this at the end of the PBP thread:

     
  10. entropy

    entropy Member

    Aug 31, 2000
    People's Republic of Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Ummm....No.

    And that's all there is to say about that.
     
  11. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Hejduk's dive is one of the worst I've seen in a long time. I thought it was clear on the replays. :confused:
     
  12. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've thought quite highly of Archundia for a while - one of the best in CONCACAF, IMHO, along with Batres and Hall. To be fully objective, I wasn't absolutely sure from the replay that the Costa Rican took a dive, but the ref had a better angle.

    I'm going to echo the comments of others: this was the best-refereed match I've seen in a long time, at any level and in any region.

    I was especially impressed by the fact that Archundia always seemed to be in the right place to make the call. Positioning is important!

    As a side note, speaking of referee positioning... who was the ref for the Cuba match? About midway through the first half, one of our players, I think it was Quaranta, lost the ball to the referee's foot when he tried to cut inside from the wing. It's one thing for a pass or a clearance to be deflected by the ref... it's another for the ref to fail to get out of the way of a player dribbling the ball. I remember immediately thinking "oh great, we're literally playing against twelve men."
     
  13. crunky

    crunky Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Frankie even smiled as soon as he got caught...maybe even before. No doubt it was a dive.

    I can't recall any players during the match having a serious beef with the referee, an indication that he called a pretty fair match.
     
  14. Aquarius21

    Aquarius21 New Member

    Aug 15, 2004
    Plano, TX
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, this time I beg to differ. In the first half Frankie almost got both his legs broken b/c a Tico went over the balls, studs up, into his shins. Studs up is a card, but intent to hurt is a red. But hey, it's CONCACAF, so we get screwed when we're at home. I had a lot of problems with the ref today, mostly b/c he consistently let Ticos go straight through our players to get to the ball. Someone could have been killed.
     
  15. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought the ref did a good job overall. It was a tough game to ref. Many times the US players played through the CR fouls. The ref has to decide whether to interrupt the flow of the game to call the foul or ignore it since play was not disrupted. In most cases, he let the play go on.

    Sure he might have pulled out a yellow for persistent infringement after one of these but most were not so egregious to warrant it.

    None of the dives yesterday were of WC quality. Especially Frankies.
     
  16. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    True. Could have been a straight red. Ref decided on yellow probably because the CR players' body was shielding the refs view to the contact and also because Frankie isn't a **********. When he REALLY gets fouled, he doesn't roll around like he's dead.
     
  17. peledre

    peledre Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hejduk embellished, but there was contact, I had it on slo-mo on my dvr, it's pretty clear there's enough contact to warrant him going down, and the CR player got clipped. Neither play deserved a penalty, but they didn't deserve cards either.
     
  18. adi21

    adi21 Member

    The ones that have Americans starting
    United States
    Mar 17, 2001
    D.C. area
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmm, he was shielded ?
    I thought he was always in perfect position (according to some )
    About Frankie's foul near the box ,on one of the replays you can see (if you look) that his right ankle was tripped from behind. :)
     
  19. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    there was some contact, but it was after Frankie had already gone airborne in my opinion (and even possibly initiated by him). ref must have seen it the same way, and as we often forget, does not have the benefit of replay and/or slo-mo.

    there was also a very nice delayed offside call against CR, where the US defender got the first touch but then lost the ball to the offside attacker who had attempted to momentarily take himself out of the play. i've seen that call botched before.

    i only watched the second half, but was reasonably impressed by the officiating.
     
  20. Thomas Flannigan

    Feb 26, 2001
    Chicago
    How quickly we forget. Archundia refereed the U.S.-England game 6 weeks ago and it was a very dubious performance. He ignored 2 obvious handballs in the box by the English defense, one which caused a big roar from the outraged crowd. He sure got out the whistle fast for the free kick in the 4th minute though.
    Archundia had a strong game last night but I would be very suspicious of the guy after the England game. There have been much better refs in CONCACAF. Marco Antonio Rodriguez called his usual superb match in the Honduras-Columbia game and Carlos Batres, the best ref in the world in my view, was great in the Colombia-Panama game that opened the tournament. Batres was one of the reasons that was a thrilling match. As soon as Panama scored they started stalling and he immediately got out the yellow card. He gave 2 or 3 cards for delay of game and that had the Panamanians running like there was no tomorrow. Medina looked like he was afraid of him after Batres showed him the yellow card.
    Batres got an octafinal match in 2002 (Paraguay-Germany) but the phone didn't ring after that. I would not expect Marco or Carlos Batres to get quarter final or higher games in Germany even though they obviously deserve it.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just can't grasp this reasoning. When there's incidental contact and a player goes down, then sure, you play on. But when players drop to the ground (or, in Hejduk's case, fling themselves into the air) in order to simulate or initiate contact, and then all eyes are on the referee to make a decision, something must be done.

    You want diving out of the game? Then referees should do what Archundia did last night: book players for it when they get caught. The thought process of "well, it was a dive, but not bad enough to warrant a card" shouldn't enter a referees mind. Either it was a dive and it gets a card, it was a foul and warrants a penalty, or it was normal physical contact that should be played through. Neither situation from last night falls into that final category.

    And again, for those that say Hejduk was "fouled", if you get a chance look at the replays again from last night. He's airborne and flailing in feigned agony before the Costa Rican player comes close to him. If you were a defender in that situation and an attacker did that to you, I highly doubt you'd be conceding that you fouled him.
     
  22. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    MassRef, I agree 100% with your point about Hejduk ... very well put.

    That said, I'm bewildered by all this praise for Archundia. In addition to his poor showing at US-England, he's been the official for some utter fiascoes in World Cup qualifying; for instance, Canada vs. Honduras last fall and Guatemala vs. the US in 2000.

    And as for yesterday, do people enjoy watching games where players are rewarded for hacking at each other's ankles?

    Oh well, at least it made Armas less of a liability.
     
  23. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is true. How about only showing Rosas (I think that's who it was) a yellow for a VERY reckless studs up tackle on Fraknie Hejduk on the end line.
    I thought he let CR foul a lot... but didn't make a whole lot of stupid decisions like i've gotten used to.
     
  24. Aquarius21

    Aquarius21 New Member

    Aug 15, 2004
    Plano, TX
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    None of our players roll around... it's called being a man
     
  25. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    What did you think about Frankie leaping into the Tico defender with his forearm extended in minute 30? Not even a card.
     

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