Referee/AR of the Year 2024 nominees

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by MassachusettsRef, Oct 15, 2024.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A week old now, but this is always relevant because it provides at least some window into PRO's plans for MLS Cup, if it doesn't simply give it away fully. This year:

    Ref of Year nominees
    Fischer
    Gonzales Jr.
    Szpala

    AR of Year nominees
    Atkins
    Brown
    Hanson

    Looking at the referee list, one has to presume Fischer is the odds-on favorite for MLS Cup. If you're looking at long-term planning with Elfath likely being in pole position for MLS Cup 2025, it would make sense to boost Fischer now. And he certaintly deserves consideration.

    I suppose Gonzales Jr. is an option, given he had the ASG. But Fischer just has a lot more on him and, obviously, Szpala, insofar as overall league experience goes. I feel like if it's not Fischer, it's someone not on this list like last year.
     
    A66C and Bradley Smith repped this.
  2. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are right about Fisher being the favorite for the final.
    It is interesting Szpala made the ballot. That is reminiscent of Allen Kelly making it into the league then quickly becoming a player favorite. If I'm not mistaken, this is his third year in the league, and he has got be close to (if not over) 50 whistles, and he has generally stayed out of controversy. Given Fisher, he's probably not going to get the final, but it is cool to see him make the ballot.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It feels more like Freemon making the ballot last year or Dickerson making it in 2020. Or Vazquez in 2019.

    I don't think inclusion here equates to "player favorite." It could to some extent, but not necessarily (I mean Unkel and Rivas were on the ballot last year and I don't think of either as a player favorite, so to speak). I think it's visibility (lot of games) and overall lack of controversy, as you suggest. I like Szpala a lot. I hope he keeps it up and becomes one of the top guys in the league on a sustained basis. Like a Rivas, let's say.

    So while I support everything you're saying about his abilities, I think. I believe the comparison to Kelly is a bit off the mark. Kelly came in as a former Irish FIFA with a lot of eyes on him and was given the big games straight out of the gate. While the manner in which referees get included on the final ballot is a bit byzantine, I think it's safe to say MLS/PRO was always going to have Kelly on that ballot almost no matter what actually happened with his officiating.
     
    jarbitro and RedStar91 repped this.
  4. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I don't see how Fischer is a favorite for MLS Cup when he has more VAR assignment than playoff whistles unless it's just time for a Canadian to finally get it again.

    But maybe he might be the only option that has enough tenure and pedigree.

    Villarreal won't get it back to back.

    Elfath is hurt.

    Penso won't get it (especially if Miami is in the Final).

    Chapman probably not due to his absence for a month of the season.

    Dickerson and Rivas probably haven't done enough games this year to get it.

    So it might be Fischer by default.
     
  5. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Why Miami specifically? Am I forgetting some controversy or something?

    That seems like a small reason to exclude someone from contention, no?

    Regardless, I agree with Mass that Fischer is the favorite. He’s probably going to win RotY ahead of the two relatively less-experienced names, and as I think Mass is implying above, it gives PRO a chance to prop up their two likely WC2026 referees in the two finals before that tournament if Fischer gets it this year and Elfath the next.

    I don’t think it’s exactly that simple because performance in earlier playoff rounds should be a factor, but then again Elfath went straight to the final in 2022 after a shaky performance in the first round. There are (a lot) more games in the playoffs these days with the new format, so maybe it’ll be two games before the final like Villarreal had least year.
     
    MassachusettsRef repped this.
  6. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Look up Sergio Busquets red card this season.
     
  7. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    For that little thing? The one where Penso could/should have already given Busquets a second yellow a few seconds earlier for getting within an inch of his face? The one that MLS posted on their YouTube channel for almost 200,000 views and 5,000 likes? If PRO blackballs Penso from Miami over that, that would not only be unethical but would be the weakest thing I’ve ever seen.
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Things could change. Things do change. But I think it's worth acknowleding that Chris Penso hasn't worked a conference final since 2017, when it was still two legs. He hasn't even worked a conference semifinal since that time. Our apparent collective assessment of his abilities and performances has never been reflected/rewarded in PRO's playoff assignments. Again, maybe that changes. But there's been zero trend in that direction and he's been in the VOR lately for the latter stages. So though it goes against my personal assessment of him as a referee, I would not consider him a candidate for the final regardless of what happened with Busquets.

    Even Fischer has been somewhat limited in his playoff game assignments over the years, but at least he had two second leg conference semifinals back-to-back in 2021 and 2022.

    One thing to keep an eye on is whether or not Tori Penso gets a playoff whistle.
     
    RedStar91 repped this.
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    PRO has three likely WC2026 referees.
     
  10. Twotone Jones

    Twotone Jones Member

    United States
    Apr 12, 2023
    Elfath
    Fischer
    Tori Penso

    does Villarreal stand any chance of working WC2026 on the field?
    Who are the likely candidates for VAR/AVAR from PRO?
     
  11. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I had no idea it has been that long since he's done a high leverage playoff whistle.

    Yeah... he's not gonna get it. And it's possible/probable he might never get it which is a shame.

    He's probably gonna have over 300 middles in the league without doing MLS Cup which will be a league record of most matches without doing MLS Cup.

    Wonder who holds the current record of most games without MLS Cup? It might already be Penso.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless this has been disclosed further than I think it would be at this point, I think we are all guessing. Because no one knows what the general quotas are per confederation with the expanded tournament. Is that correct, @Mikael_Referee ?

    That said, I think Villarreal’s chances depend on Elfath not recovering or Penso having a really bad run. Seems more likely to me he will go in the booth and then be a top candidate for 2030… unless someone else pushes him aside.

    Dickerson might be being groomed for VAR duties. And if Elfath doesn’t recover for whatever reason, this season shows he’s also being groomed to an extent for that role.
     
    frankieboylampard repped this.
  13. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    She'll end the season with just 8 regular season whistles. I don't know how many you need for playoff eligibility, but single digits feels like a stretch.
     
  14. weka

    weka Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    How many did 25-a-season Szpala get?
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You seem to be conflating a few things here, unless I'm misinterpreting the question.

    I believe there are two minimums to be playoff eligible and there's a chance one of them is unofficial (I can't recall). First, you need to have two seasons as a referee before being eligible for a playoff assignment. Second, @ManiacalClown is suggesting you need a minimum number of games in-season to be eligible for a playoff assignment; this is the one that I can't remember if it is strictly true or not, but it certainly has been effectively true. The last person that probably tested this was Geiger during a WC year, right?

    I think you're suggesting Szpala only got one playoff match last year and that wasn't commensurate with his regular season assigning. But that's not what is being argued. Quantity doesn't mean quality per se; not to slight Boiko, but I'm not sure he'd be top of the heap for playoff assignments this year, for example. Having a minimum threshold is totally different than an argument or policy that the referees with the most games should get more playoff assignments--particularly so when a reason the threshold may not be met or barely met could be due to international appointments or injuries (meaning, your best referees might have fewer matches due to reasons outside performance).

    Plus, last year was Szpala's first year of eligibility for playoffs based on the two-season rule, I believe. So in the first year eligible for playoffs, Szpala got one. That is a big deal. It doesn't happen a lot.

    Again, apologies if I'm misinterpreting the meaning of your question.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  16. weka

    weka Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    I meant how many games did Szpala do this year as whistle. He did 25 whistles last year and year before that.
     
  17. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He'll finish with 20.
     
    weka and MassachusettsRef repped this.
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah. Suffice it to say I would have phrased that a little differently if that was the intended meaning. "25-a-season Szpala" just sort of sounds like it's meant with snark. Regardless, sorry for the extended reply that wasn't on point.
     
    weka repped this.
  19. weka

    weka Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    All good. Thanks for the great insight nonetheless.
     
    JasonMa and MassachusettsRef repped this.
  20. weka

    weka Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Congratulations Drew and Kyle!
     
  21. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    This slipped under my radar. Why did she do so few games this year?
     
  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Copa America and Olympics. Plus I'm sure there were additional international obligations that curbed potential appointments.

    But she will have a playoff whistle.
     
    StarTime repped this.
  23. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    I'm assuming that they were the winners?

    A link to a story/whatever about this would definitely help.
     
  24. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    That’s the story. They won. Cool.
     
  25. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada

Share This Page