Ref shortages this year

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Beau Dure, May 22, 2021.

  1. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
     
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  2. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    My very first game - I was AR, staring into the sun as a white team played a gray team.
     
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  3. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    We're down 40% of what we usually have this time of year and that is the whole USSF season for us (mid-April through mid-August we play 95% of all of our USSF matches).

    The local assignors have been begging for refs. I choose not to cover more than I feel I can do while still giving 100% to the game. I also don't think we (assignors and refs) should feel compelled to "find" coverage when it just isn't there.

    If the demand exceeds the supply, the leagues who want to play these games (and especially these local tournaments) should:
    1. Help us to recruit. I know that some areas have this, but in my area, the clubs don't lift a finger to bring in refs - as a referee unit this has never made much sense to us.
    2. Raise the rates - if you pay enough, people WILL take up the job... but the pay raises need to be advertised during recruitment since with education, risk management, and other basic training, you can't just mint officials overnight.
     
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  4. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    This week a mass email went out on Game Officials for tournaments and events in the state being held later this month. It was one of the rare times fees were actually published. $110 for Center Referees. Wonder if it will make a difference.

    I've even seen emails in the past two months for MLS Next games. How is the fee for this ($75) less than doing a recreation or club league match?
     
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  5. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    "It's good for the exposure." Same thing you tell artists when you don't want to pay them for their work. That they're getting 'exposure' but of course it's just an excuse not to pay.
     
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  6. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    i didn’t start working DA until like 2013. But I know as long as I have been working the rates have stayed the same. I often times know other officials who decline to work them Bc they can make more money stacking their schedules with non-DA youth games.
     
  7. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Supply and demand?
     
  8. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    I've never really worked youth matches for the money but at that rate I would center about as many as I could get.
     
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  9. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Metro forgot to mention the bonus of 150 for working father’s day.

    I have never reffed for the money. But, the MLSnext rates are tragic. The going rate right now in some areas is between $1 and $1.15 per minute. And, tbh,with the rates they are paying for College, MLSNext should be looking at much higher fees.
     
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  10. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    $110 for a youth game?!? Holy crap, sign me up.
     
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  11. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    So tonight for the first time in seven years I canceled Sunday games because I cannot provide refs.

    4 U10 games and a U14.

    There's a sense of failure but also a thought that this might spark actual adults to take the actual class.

    You know, young/fit board members who have kids that play and oh, yeah, also play.

    And who have lots of opinions about the refs we get.

    Put up.

    Shut up.

    Pick one.
     
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  12. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS Next and DA before it is the classic carrot and stick thought process. They will make the refs think everyone that does them will get “looked at”, when in reality that just not happening.

    The fact that most of the refs have to pay their own way on everything is telling.
     
  13. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First off, let me say that I did not get into refereeing for the money. However, in my area, we have UPSL games. But they pay less than NFHS high school games. Plus there is less aggravation with high school games than UPSL games!
     
  14. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Incoming text. This is one for the annals:

     
  15. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    I'll do it. I have no games till late August! Pick me, sir!

    But in all seriousness, whats the end result here. They get off the game and a soft black mark?

    But yeah, since Regionals and all that jazz is happening mid-Summer... I am staying put. :)
     
  16. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    #66 Pittsburgh Ref, Jun 5, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2021
    Well, Travel's got one more light (I hope) week of makeups and she's off to school in the fall, so it's kind of an anti-climactic finale.

    I wished her a fun party and congratulations on graduating. This kind of stuff always happens with (certain) kids, usually there's some slack for late fill-ins and for a while the kid is not first on the call list. This year it means the slot goes unfilled.
     
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  17. Barciur

    Barciur Member+

    Apr 25, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    It's interesting because here we don't cancel games due to lack of coverage. If there are no refs, the teams are supposed to agree on someone to ref. There is often a lot of games with no refs simply because there just isn't enough of us to go around.

    Regarding the pay, NFHS games here pay $89 for varsity and $71 for JV. I am doing an amateur adult game tomorrow which pays $88 for center and $55 for AR. U-19 youth pay 10 bucks less. So here high school pays way more than club stuff. And then college is waay more.. so people doing it for the money are doing college and hs games. Not youth or adults.
     
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  18. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    I...just...

    This was received at 3:10 yesterday. CR let me know he was shy an AR so I pinged him.

    Oh and kickoff was 3pm.
     
  19. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    That's really inexcusable. I mean, what else can you besides tell me why it puts you in the bind and why it makes you see him less dependable?
     
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  20. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    #70 MetroFever, Sep 2, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
    1) Starting this month, in an effort to keep the referees they already assign, one of the club leagues in the State will be paying referees who do games U13 and above solo an "extra" $20. If you have only one AR in your match, both will get an extra $10 each.

    Will it help? I don't know, but the clubs still save anywhere from $90 to $100 bucks with no AR's, so it seems like a great deal for them.


    2) MLS Next Increased their fees in the U15 to U19 age groups to $100/$60/$60.

    Referees were declining matches because they could make more in other competitions.
     
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  21. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    #71 soccerref69420, Sep 3, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
    Reading some recent replies here, I can't tell if your areas pay extremely well or ours pays low. Usually regular youth league game pay in our area (so not counting fixed pay from ECNL and MLSN which just bumped up theirs) tops out at the U19 comp/NPL level at $65/50/50. And I'm in CA, so maybe we have way more refs here and don't need to inflate game pay? Personally while I wouldn't do this for crappy pay, I don't do this just for the money, I want good soccer. I'll take a high level, 45 minute half U19 boys match for $65 over a $40-45 solo U11 rec 30 minute half match where I would probably scream obscenities by halftime.

    But I can't believe some of the rates I'm seeing here. I usually do 3, maybe 4 at a stretch, games in a day. With games usually running every 2 hours, even 3 games takes up a good chunk of the day.

    And with respect to referee shortages, what do the leagues want exactly? Refereeing is independent contracting and completely voluntary work. You can't force refs to come in and work. You can't threaten then with removal from the system if they don't work because now you're down another ref when you're already short. If there aren't enough refs to cover games, then there aren't enough refs. You can only send out so many emails asking for help. If you want more refs, then force every single comp team starting at a certain age to have a certain number of players and parents take ref classes.

    They should just prioritize getting the highest level comp games filled. When you have a hundred rec teams and expect them all to have refs, well sorry, TS. Don't need to waste ref resources on rec games. Also stop asking for full crews on small sided U12 and below games.

    Where the heck are you located where refs are making more than $75 for a RECREATION level match? MLS Next is a nationwide program so, while they can't adjust for every single league paying a ridiculous rate, at least they bumped up the pay for this season to a level that reflects better on the skill required. But then again, if your league is paying a hundred and ten dollars for a crappy match, how can MLSN compete with that?
     
  22. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Who is this? Lol

    But yes, you should look at negotiating an increase in your rates.
     
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  23. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia

    As per the post you quoted, the games were highly competitive and far from recreation level.

    Other perks were offered around that time (if I recall) such as a stipend if you could work an entire day for Father's Day.

    They were so desperate, I think they would detail your car during the matches if you requested it.
     
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  24. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    some states who have a large referee pool find it difficult to negotiate higher pay because there are multiple assignors. If one club or league is unwilling to pay a “higher rate” or can’t negotiate they’ll go to a different assignor who will do the same job with different terms. Referees follow assignors and things get stuck at certain rates.

    other states where there are only a handful of assignors or 1/2 people running the show they’ll be able to negotiate better rates because they have control of the referee pool. YMMV
     
  25. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    It really is a case of supply and demand. Yes, basic economics. I've run across any number of leagues/tournaments/schools that refuse to accept that paying more creates a larger supply of officials. If you don't have 'enough' referees, you aren't paying enough. I know any number of referees who referee because it pays more per hour than landscaping or restaurant work, their "real" jobs.

    Now there are definitely related issues. E.g. you can't just create an experienced referee who can handle a high school boys' varsity game smoothly. It takes years of experience to get there. In the mean time, though, you have to pay enough that they don't get tired of refereeing and go off to do other things, including coaching and/or just playing in the adult leagues, much less spending time with their spouse and kids, or not taking paid time off from work to go referee those afternoon games.

    At the youth (i.e. sub high school age) game level, most of the referees are teenagers. YMMV. That group is perhaps the most motivated by money. You're going to get more games covered if you pay $50 for a U-14 girls game than if you pay $25. In my experience, they may say that they want three officials on each game but, it turns out, they don't want to actually pay what it would take to get three officials there. The referees aren't THAT important when it comes down to opening the bank account to pay for Johnny's soccer registration. Yeah, I guess we can get along with one referee, said no one but that's the way they vote with their wallets.

    Years ago, the state's competitive youth league fired their assignor. He was covering 98%+ of the games with three officials. They had only budgeted for 2/3 of the games to have three officials, even though they charged the teams as if every game would have three. That approach blew up in their faces when the teams got a rule passed that the teams got refunds for the officials missing from their games during the season.
     

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