Redcoats and rivalries

We are neither. We are Canada.

We hate to admit it because it's not true.

Americans don't celebrate Canada Day, Victoria Day or Boxing Day. Most of the holidays we share with the US we share with many other countries around the world too.

And if our dialect is the same, I don't understand why so many Americans I've met like poking fun at Canadian accents.

We share alot in common with both the US and Britain (and Australia and New Zealand as well), but in the end, we are not America Jr, we are not British North America. We are Canada.

 

Though we are inundated by the American cultural and economic hegemony, so in that sense we are America Jr.

 

So is pretty much every other country on the planet. Except Cuba.

Actually, I watched a program some time ago where different networks around the world did a journalistic piece on their relationship with America, and it was interesting to hear so many of them describe themselves as the 51st state, including Britain, France, Japan, Poland and Israel to name a few.

I mean, yes we share alot in common with the US, but we are not the US in the same sense that Ireland is not Britain, Austria is not Germany or New Zealand is not Australia.

 

So does every other country in the world. They all watch Hollywood films as well.

Not all. I've never seen JC Penny, Bob Evans, Barns and Noble, Chilis, IHOP, to name a few, up here. I've never seen the Bay, Canadian Tire, Harvey's or Indigo down there either.

As for the ones we do have up here, most of them operate worldwide as well. I've eaten at McDonald's in Paris, Burger King in Amsterdam, Subway in Korea, shopped at Toys'r'us in Barcelona and Wal Mart in Shanghai.

Only because many of them are built here. Hondas and Toyotas are domestics as well.

Yes, and we did it after Britain, France and several other NATO countries did so.

Again, economic policy makers worldwide always keep an eye on what the US does before making their own moves.

By these arguments, pretty much every country in the world is America Jr.

 

True, though think we can make a case that Canada moved from a British sphere of influence to more of an American sphere of influence as the balance of world power shifted towards the Americans, particularly after the second world war.

Though we manage to retain far more British influence in our legal, government, military, and language (provincial Norman French in the case of Quebec) and tend to have a far more American influence on our recent culture and economic situation, this reflects the status quo at the time of their relative inceptions, particularly our culture and economy reflect current American trends as they are more fleeting than the British influences.

So from a military stand point, the use of redcoats as a team nickname reflects a Canadian institution of British influence, which is fine if you want to dip into military history for rivalries with some American teams.

But since the current team is so recent, and doesn't really reflect any of the prior incarnations of association football teams in Toronto -- nobody is suggesting nicknames reflecting prior Croatian or Scottish teams, though a few do like the latter NASL incarnation -- a nickname hearkening back to the wars during Canadian colonial period is unlikely to be met with much success either.

The generic Reds was bound to win out because few fans wish to associate a sports team with the military when Canada, as an independent nation, never fought against the Americans, especially when we have a whole host of sporting rivalries with American teams in various sports that provide a whole host of more recent fodder than the war of 1912 or the American War of Independence do.

For those of us that choose to identify with our British military history, great, but as we see every offseason it's tough to convince many Torontonians of non-British ancestry to get behind the idea, because it doesn't really reflect their Canada.

This is exactly what makes sense, redcoats as one of a bunch of identities and works well for the situation you describe.

 

Well, I certainly agree with this. To argue otherwise would be dumb. Just saying that there's more to us than the whole America Jr thing. Doesn't mean we don't have alot in common with the US, we do, but we still retain some similarities to Britain, and there's alot about Canada that is simply and uniquely Canadian.

And well, I'm not of British heritage but the fact is that our history is deeply intertwined with Britain, who settled this country (well, invaded, pillaged, then settled... but I digress).

We've grown beyond our British North America way of being, as have countries like Aus and NZ, but historical fact is historical fact. We can't ignore history just because our world has changed.

 

Acutally, they do.

If you don't see what makes Canada unique, that's fine. But many people do. I've been to New York and Chicago. Toronto is not New York or Chicago. Go to either of those cities and tell them how much we are like them and watch them laugh.

I can name at least 100 cities around the world that have no unique cuisine, I don't see why that matters.

 

Hold the phone, just because we don't have a specific unique food, or lifestyle we're America Jr. That's a lovely strawman you've built there. The fact that we've been inundated by the modern culture and lifestyle reflects our status as a first world country, not our Americnanness. And why the arbitrary limitation to the last 20 years, most of the Canadian cultural hallmarks predate that period (hockey, CFL, accent etc.), you can say the same things about any major Canadian city, or cities like London and Sydney, so what?

Of course, the point is we're a modern international city that was a provincial backwater during the majority of the British colonial period, that has relied on a steady stream of immigrants to increase our population and stature as a world city, the bulk of whom identify as Canadians of whatever non-British origin.

Our British history is a fact, but isn't really useful in a modern context, it's not that it's ignored, (give someone directions, or pay cash for goods and our British roots show easily) it's that for the majority it's irrelevant. Like most of the other members of the commonwealth, we've moved on.

Using corporate examples is great and all, but I can counter with our banks, hospitals/health care and government for distinctly Canadian institutions, we have our big corporations like RIM and Bombardier that are Canadian multinationals too, The NHL and companies like Tim Hortons (sigh) have done the same in the U.S.

Your CFL characterization is interesting though, it's one of the truly unique Canadian things out there that has little or no American influence on it (besides the fact that Americans play it here), both forms of gridiron evolved independently of each other from rugby reflective of local rules played during one home and home series between McGill and Harvard - if you meant junior to be evolved similarly in parallel I guess that makes sense, but that's not how I interpret it.

 

Not meaning to be testy, just felt like some debate this afternoon.

Of course we're similar to Americans, they're right next door and we're huddled on the property line, maybe I'm just feeling the classic Canadian inferiority complex (and good luck finding an American with one of those).

The reality is we have very similar histories and origins, we both started out as English colonies with some French ones thrown in, we both decimated local populations, we both grew via immigration, we both have created a type of gridiron football based on rugby.

But we weren't founded by a revolutionary war, we didn't get rid of the bulk of our British military/legal institutions, we have embraced a more European social democratic system (thank you Quebec), and those subtle differences are what makes us Canadian, as least much as poutine, maple syrup, rye whiskey and bloody caesars.

 

I seriously threw this thread off course today, my apologies to everyone.

I'll stop here, back to my very beautiful, very unique country of Canada.

 

Well, I did too. But it's the off season and this stuff comes up like clockwork this time of year (not that there's anything wrong with it), so having a place for it works for me.

Anyway, I love the irony that this happened on an American site, but I digress (even further).

Up the redcoats!

 

Of course you're one of us, Sudbury is basically Toronto Jr.

Alright, I'll stop it now.