Recert Fees

Discussion in 'Referee' started by elonpuckhog, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. elonpuckhog

    elonpuckhog Member

    Dec 29, 2009
    Here in North Carolina, we got our annual time to recert email. Most of it is being done online this year, and since I've been reffing long enough, I'm pretty sure I don't even have to go to class. I take the modules online and take the exam - badge mailed to me (at least thats how I understand it right now). My gripe though is with the recert fee - $95! (And its going up to $115 after October 1). For me, thats probably a Saturday worth of games. At the very least, its 2 adult centers ($50/center). Personally, I've never done an adult center, so I've not made that much in a single game (HS excluded). It just seems really high to me. It makes no sense to me that it continues to go up even though most (if not all) of the recert is being done online.
    I'm sure other states have this same issue. Outside of just stopping reffing, do we have any recourse to get this corrected? Maybe I'm just in a foul mood because I won't be able to ref this fall (injury), but this just seems substantially higher than it was even 2 or 3 years ago.
     
  2. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    The club I mostly ref for reimburses recert fees if you do at least five games for them.
     
  3. andymoss

    andymoss BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 4, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Last year I wrote checks for close to $500 for recert fees, registrations, clinics, etc.

    'Tis the price of business.
     
  4. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    Consider it a cost of being an independent contractor. And, just because the test is online doesn't mean it didn't cost money. Running a "business" has a lot of hidden costs you may not be thinking of and that might be why the SRC raised the rates.

    I sympathize with you on the cost. Instead of focusing on how much it costs I like to try and focus on how that money is spent (at least in my state). If we get more training from the additional recert costs, I'm happy. Try to influence that.

    Coincidentally, that's my same mentality around taxes. Because we know those aren't going down!
     
  5. RichM

    RichM Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Nov 18, 2009
    Meridian, ID
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    $95? I'm assuming that's not just a regular Grade 8 recert?

    Our Grade 8 recerts cost $45. Not online.

    Our local Rec league hosts a pre-season tournament and if you do 4 free games they give you $45 to offset your recert cost.
     
  6. o5iiawah

    o5iiawah Member

    Oct 31, 2008
    Ref expenses? Bring em on! More of a tax writeoff for me later!
     
  7. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    I wouldn't be surprised if it is just a Grade 8. Our state tacks on an additional charge on top of what USSF charges. Call it a clinic fee or whatever, but it's within their rights.
     
  8. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I will agree that is a lot, assuming we're talking about grade 8 here. Our state is $45 for that badge, up from $40. However, we do not require a clinic or written test for our grade 8 referees. Therefore, we don't have a clinic instructor or facilities to pay for, etc.

    You might be interested to know that the "USSF fee" goes half to USSF and half to the State Referee Committee. Most SRC's, in my experience, can't live on their half of the fee alone. The clerical cost of dealing with re-registrations, payments, etc. runs about $15 each and that's without the cost of the book, card and badge. YMMV. That doesn't leave much for mentoring, instruction, etc.
     
    La Rikardo repped this.
  9. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    here, $45 for recert. state committee brings in a pro for recert clinic, at the end of which the test is given. attendance is free. not bad!
     
  10. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    How is it a tax writeoff when it isn't a real job?
     
  11. elonpuckhog

    elonpuckhog Member

    Dec 29, 2009
    I record all my fees and all my expenses. Revenue - Expenses = Profits subject to tax. I would be very careful if you're not reporting income.
    And I didn't mean to complain. I know its the cost of doing business and I'm pretty sure we have this same discussion every year. For some reason the price irked me this year. It was only $75 six months ago when I registered. So its gone up $20 and it will go up another $20 on Oct 1.
     
  12. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Basically in the U.S. if the revenue is not explicitly stated as not to be taxable income by the tax code you are obligated to pay taxes on it. Sucks and isn't really enforced for income under $600 but it is what it is.
     
  13. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    Interesting. Thanks for the info.

    I have no idea if the same sort of rule applies here in Canada, but back in Australia I never reported a single cent of my referee income, and no one else ever did. It was all cash in hand, and as I commonly called it, "a well-paid hobby".
     
  14. IllinoisRef

    IllinoisRef Member

    Jul 6, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I understand what you say Andy. For us adults it's the price we pay. Some of us also buy all 10 pro style jerseys.
    But think about the young referees out there. Many of them are working only a handful games per season. The high cost of a recert may make it not worthwhile for some (lots).
     
  15. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    We in the US have two issues with that: cash in hand is "supposed to" be reported ;-)
    Second, we get checks from some places, who then file 1099 forms to the government, so now we are stuck! And it can only be a money making hobby for a couple years, then it has to become a business.
     
  16. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    In the US it falls under "self-employment" income and expenses. You can deduct your uniforms, travel expenses, etc. Where it can get a little tricky is if you end up wanting to deduct more expense than you have offsetting associated income - then potentially you can bump into the "hobby loss" rule. Consult your tax advisor.
     
  17. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you have enough expenses that you get a loss from refereeing then you are almost certainly going to be audited.
     
  18. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    For my tax bracket, it is much more beneficial to fully report the cash and check payments for refereeing I've done, regardless of if it was reported to the IRS. By the time I claim all my other expenses around the "job" it ends up being a wash.

    For those in the US who think its a good idea not to claim your referee income: Forget the IRS coming to get you (although that's possible). Think bigger than that; what if you are going to be buying a house in the next few years. All that under the table money you make won't be considered as income in that process since its not on your tax return.

    Besides, we talk about doing the "right" thing all the time on this forum. I think this falls into that category.
     
    fairplayforlife repped this.
  19. soccerman771

    soccerman771 Member

    Jul 16, 2011
    Dallas, Texas area
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Paper - I think the "right" thing is for the Government to use my money responsibly...

    Just sayin'
     
    NC Soccer United repped this.
  20. NC Soccer United

    NC Soccer United BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jan 25, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    In NC, it is becoming a sore subject because of various reasons. Rising gas prices (at the time), less games, and increased certification fees. They won't even entertain raising ref pay for games. I understand it is the cost of doing business these days. Here is a real legitimate gripe: Getting assigned to 2 AR's at a venue 45 miles from your house on a frequent basis. This happens to a lot of people. Fortunately I don't have to worry about that. In accounting, that ref actually lost money to do those games, but if he doesn't do those games he won't get assigned again. You are putting that ref in serious tax jeopardy due to showing losses. Try defending yourself against the IRS. Good luck with avoiding legal costs fighting this. Tax lawyers are pricey. I truly believe we should get compensated for travel costs as a ref, but that is another ball of wax to dissect.
     
  21. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    With substantial travel, I think it would be pretty darn easy to end up with more expense than income. The tougher question is whether to claim any of that expense in excess of your income. That's the one to consult your tax advisor about. You're unlikely to get in any trouble by claiming all your expense up to the amount of your associating ref'ing income.

    But yeah, audits happen. That's a case of the government using your money responsibly.
     
  22. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    I do my own taxes :p
     
  23. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    I'm a CPA.
     
  24. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member+

    May 3, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I think cleansheetbsc just said that they're willing to give general consulting advice on the matter to us.

    Thanks, since my wife is a musician, I'll be able to apply your assistance to her part of the tax return.:cool:
     
  25. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Basically, everything that has been said is correct so far. You SHOULD claim all income and expenses. Yes, even the cash that you are handed.

    And yes, the IRS can say it is a 'hobby' if you lose year after year. They may also agree that you are losing money and allow the deduction ( I am assuming most of us have other jobs and the refing money doesn't come close to other income), but the burden of proof is on you.
     

Share This Page