Rebuilding The Azzurri for Euro 2024 and beyond

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by indestructible, Mar 26, 2022.

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  1. Vieri's Left Foot

    Roma
    Italy
    Jun 8, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Is Milan crashing out in the group stage going to be a catalyst for change? I wish fans were more fickle. Teams shouldn't be able to make money when their product gets progressively worse, but the Man U's and Milan's of the world do it. Not exactly a deterent toward prioritizing brand over squad, or over developing players (which they seem to not care about).

    By the way, to those who aren't in the US: The Serie A advertisement on Paramount+ shows 5 players, none of whom are Italian. What happened to "Serie A: Made in Italy"? Shameful, really.
     
  2. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    i'm not saying he should start at the moment, Bastoni for me is the best LCB. But it's not too farfetched that we couldn't count on or integrate one of the CB pairing from the best defence in Serie A last year (along with Casale). They have dipped this year, but they've been dealing with injuries (moreso Casale but not its Alessio).

    You mention Bonucci as one of the great on your list. I personally don't, i would put Barzagli ahead of him of this generation. Juve bought him from Wolfsburg for $300,000 in 2011. Some had written him off at that point. Sometimes if you let players play good things happen.
     
  3. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    im going to call them INTERNAZIONALE from now on.. to match their roster. They should love that.
     
  4. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #6429 falvo, Nov 28, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
    You are correct as Barzagli was much better!

    Bonucci wasn't even close to anyone on that list but he and Chiellini were all Italy had at the time and they alone won the Euro.

    Italy currently doesn't have anyone their caliber and that is sad.

    Not making two consecutive WC tournaments and almost missing the Euro says it all.

    Italy should be dominating the world , especially with GK's and defenders as they always did.
     
  5. azzurri06

    azzurri06 Member

    Apr 4, 2007
    san francisco
    Screenshot_20231128-141232_Brave.jpg To Falvo this is hoha hola
     
  6. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Jeesh, falvo. What did they put in your turkey stuffing?

    My guy's been on a heater all day :laugh:
     
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  7. azzurri06

    azzurri06 Member

    Apr 4, 2007
    san francisco
    I think individually neither Chiellini nor Bonucci were some of the top CBs we've had (Chiellini obviously the much stronger defender of the two). The synergy to their partnership was real though. I think you could make a strong case they were the best pair when combined we've had. Which is weird but if we were to be objective I think hard to ignore their effectiveness together over the years. The counterargument I suppose could be they were offered more protection by a stronger midfield than previous generations?
     
  8. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    FWIW

    I may have to dig up an older post but I repeat here now:

    Top 3 CF's: we know they are Raspadori, Scamacca, Retegui.

    4th guy SHOULD be Kean. But if he doesn't produce until June, and Immobile keeps THIS modest pace (modest for his standards), then he should be the 4th CF taken.
     
  9. azzurri06

    azzurri06 Member

    Apr 4, 2007
    san francisco
    Only took me a decade to figure it out but I now understand that Immobile has been trolling us this whole time. Bravo Ciro. You really got me. He intentionally bottles for Italy just to drive us mad. Then scores for fun with Lazio. Then gets called up again and bottles for the NT. Laughs inside. Then trolls harder with a cameo for drag events. Then scores more for Lazio. Earns another call up. Bottles again for NT. Endless cycle.
     
  10. Vieri's Left Foot

    Roma
    Italy
    Jun 8, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Kean is leading Serie A in "almost goals." I think he's had some good games for Juve, but he's not a CDM. The guy needs to start putting balls in the back of the net.

    In a vacuum, Ciro has been significantly more productive this year, and that's with him coming off getting hit by a f***ing car. All credit to him. However, I loathe the idea of Ciro coming back to the squad and Spalletti squandering opportunities to develop the young guys. I don't see where Ciro fits into any future plans, unless he turns into Zlatan and starts banging goals left and right. Even then, will he do it for the azzurri?
     
  11. Rossonero23

    Rossonero23 Member+

    Sep 9, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Do you rate matrix higher than chiellini?
     
  12. Vieri's Left Foot

    Roma
    Italy
    Jun 8, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    And yet, nobody has defnitively emerged to put Ciro completely out of consideration. And I love Raspadori, and Scamacca has had a good year, so far. But that near-disaster against Ukraine isn't dispelling any of our concerns, moving forward. Chiesa is part of this, too. Chiesa was on the field against Northern Ireland and North Macedonia (maybe not this one, I forget), and he botched that Zaniolo header-cross last week.

    If the team was scoring by committee as they did in the Euro 2020 qualifiers, you excuse it. But when the team is getting fewer and fewer opportunities, the guys who play those forward posiitons are ultimately responsible, and when Chiesa/Raspadori/Scamacca/Zaniolo/Politano put up a bagel against Ukraine, and Ciro scores twice in 30 minutes, you know Spalletti is weighing his options.
     
  13. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    THIS


     
  14. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #6439 falvo, Nov 28, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
    Yes.

    He was a jerk but a better player.

    Chiellini fouled more and got away with it.
     
  15. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Career wise, no. Chiellini clear.
     
  16. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #6441 falvo, Nov 28, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
    La hoha hola hon la hannuccia le è troppo halda…

    Homunwe sia, Hwesti Giohatori di ogggggi gggiorno non hanno niente He vedere oppure in Homune Home Hwelli di una volta…..purtroppo
    !
     
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  17. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Message didn't transmit. WTF. Short form.

    For @falvo, you say Italy never played older Defenders prior to Chiellini and Bonucci?

    - Cannavaro was 37 in 2010.

    - Maldini revealed recently he was offered a spot for the 2006 team even though he had been retired. He was 38 in 2006.

    - Bergomi was on the France'98 team at age 35.
     
  18. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #6443 falvo, Nov 28, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
    Bergomi was 34 in 98.

    Maldini quit after he was out jumped by Ahn and Lippi spoke to him once but he said it was not fair as he had turned down Trap.

    Marcello never asked him again and went with Grosso , Cannavaro, Nesta and Matrix.

    Donadoni picked Panucci at 35 in 08 and rightly so because he scored the goal which qualified Italy.

    They were all 10 times better than these clowns though.

    As for 2010 , Lippi hung on to his old guard and Canna was already done.

    The national team program was also at the beginning of their current fiasco.
     
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  19. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    I don't know what part of the cycle Lippi asked him but let's assume he did so at the start of Qualifers in September 2004. He still would have been 36.

    Still old enough to prove your OP is false.

    And yes, Lippi holding on to his old guard for 2010 is neither here nor there. Point was you wrote older players wouldn't have been part of the setup. They have. Always have.
     
  20. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #6445 falvo, Nov 28, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
    Fabio Cannavaro played in almost all of the Italy’s 2010 WC qualifiers and was 36 years old at the tournament.

    He was turning 37 in September or 2-3 months later.

    Italy won their qualifying group but by the time the tournament began, he was already too old and way past his prime and it seemed evident.

    In my opinion, Lippi relied too much on his 2006 players at that World Cup and many pundits and I believe himself admitted the same thing.

    As for older players being used at a Euro or WC , traditionally or prior to 2010, Italy rarely employed players Over 35.

    The only one I knew was Gk Dino Zoff who at 40 won a World Cup.

    I watched Franco Baresi live in Pasadena and he played the game of his life but he was 34.

    Sacchi asked him to play the Euro qualifiers for 1996 and I think he played in 2 games before finally retiring from the national team.

    Sacchi wanted to pick him again in time for the 1996 tournament when he turned 36 but he declined.
     
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  21. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #6446 falvo, Nov 28, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
    Also, Fulvio Bernardini and Enzo Bearzot, kept picking Giacinto Facchetti at 35 and he participated in both the 1976 European Championship qualifiers and the 1978 World Cup qualifiers.

    In May 1978 though, shortly before the finals in Argentina when he was about to turn 36, he told CT Bearzot that he didn’t want to play in the tournament because he wasn’t physically fit as he just came back from an injury

    Facchetti played his last matches for Inter in 1978 and then participated in the Azzurri expedition to Argentina as a non-playing captain similar to Ciro Ferrara's role in 2006.

    Sacchi also asked Pietro Vierchowod if he wanted to play in WC 1994 but because he was already 35, he wanted to be assured of a starting spot and Sacchi couldn't promise him that so he turned him down.

    As it turned out, he probably would have played a lot because of other players suspensions and injuries.
     
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  22. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    #6447 AGomes, Nov 28, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
    Not sure if you are referring to the abbreviated version but the 30 Second advert for the 2023/2024 Season shows about 19 or 20 players. 2 or 3 faces are hidden.

    Of the faces shown, I can make out 6 Italian players. I can make out, in order: Candreva, really looks like Pinamonti, Baschirotto, Orsolini, Buongiorno, Di Lorenzo.

    11 Foreign players.

    Just as I wrote about 6 Weeks ago. A real misplaced Advert. "Made in Italy" :rolleyes:. Sure, if you don't mean the players.
     
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  23. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    And what's more, for Juve they used Paul flippin Pogba?

    Couldn't use Chiesa? But he was injured 1-2 Years ago, was maybe the thinking. But Pogba was always injured. Even more, you already have a French representation with Giroud at the end.

    Like seriously, why Pogba for Juve?
     
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  24. Rossonero23

    Rossonero23 Member+

    Sep 9, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Talking titles? Del piero won more than baggio but pony clearly better.

    No matrix no 4th star.
     
  25. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Skill, football IQ, leadership. Chiellini well clear.

    Materazzi was a bit player for Italy and only got a chance because Nesta got injured. He had what? 3 excellent matches and even with that was to blame for getting his ass sent off versus the Aussies and conceding a PK in the Final. Yeah, kinda a dive by Malouda, but why make contact with him in the first place?
    Scored in the Final though, right? True, but again, caused the PK.

    In the Final that Chiellini played, Kane had zero touches in the box.

    With Nesta we probably still win the World Cup. Not without Cannavaro.


    Best Italy CB's: Scirea, Baresi, Cannavaro, Nesta.
     
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