Rebuild after Copa, 2 years before the big show

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Jul 2, 2024.

  1. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    If Crocker doesn’t have to live in the U.S. I assume the manager doesn’t ether, correct?
     
  2. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    That really would make sense. I know it's never a good environment when bosses aren't willing to do what they ask of those they manage. Of course, it also happens all the time
     
  3. bsky22

    bsky22 Red Card

    Dec 8, 2003
    ???
     
  4. bsky22

    bsky22 Red Card

    Dec 8, 2003
    Unfortunately, it continues to get worse.
     
  5. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After the Olympic roster and Gregg’s firing were announced, my roster for the upcoming September friendlies against Canada and New Zealand…

    GOALKEEPERS: Roman Celentano, Matt Freese, Chris Brady
    …Let Turner, Horvath, & Slonina settle in for the new season. Turner especially. Schulte will just be getting back from the Olympics too. Let’s give one of these new guys a shot. Celentano and Freese have been very underrated in MLS. Brady deserves more of a mention.

    RIGHT BACKS: Joe Scally, Marlon Fossey, DeJuan Jones
    …It’s time to see what Fossey can do. Scally is called back in, as I feel good about his place at Gladbach. And we might need Jones’ athleticism and versatility down the road.

    CENTER BACKS: Chris Richards, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Auston Trusty, Mark McKenzie
    …Rest Miles, as he will have played in 2 tournaments this summer. Ream put out to pasture. Zimmerman can wait since he will have had the Olympics. And bring in Trusty and McKenzie.

    LEFT BACKS: Jedi Robinson, Kevin Paredes
    …Wait on Wiley and Tolkin. Lund can wait too. Meanwhile, Paredes is called in even though he’s had a busy summer with the Olympics.

    MIDFIELDERS: Tyler Adams, Yunus Musah, Lennard Maloney, Johnny Cardoso, Tanner Tessmann
    …Tessmann is my new guy to introduce. Well, and Maloney too.

    ATTACKERS: Christian Pulisic, Gio Reyna, Tim Weah, Malik Tillman, Luca de la Torre, Weston McKennie, Diego Luna
    …I don’t want to lose Luna to Mexico so that’s a bit of a bone thrown to him. I’ve got De la Torre and McKennie to try out in a more advanced position. And I want to see if Tillman can do better under a different coach.

    FORWARDS: Folarin Balogun, Josh Sargent, Haji Wright, Brandon Vazquez
    …Pepi needs to sit after that Copa showing. Sargent and Wright can get more of a look. Pefok will have to wait.


    Vs Canada:
    ————Balogun—Sargent—————
    Pulisic————————————Reyna
    ————Adams——Musah————
    Jedi—————————————Scally
    —————Trusty——McKenzie———
    ———————Celentano—————-

    Subs: Tessmann (Adams), Weah (Reyna), McKennie (Musah), Jones (Scally), Wright (Sargent), Paredes (Jedi)

    Vs New Zealand
    ———————Balogun———————
    Pulisic—————Gio——————McKennie
    ————Adams————Johnny————
    Jedi——————————————Fossey
    ——————CCV——Richards————-
    ————————Freese———————-

    Subs: Musah (Johnny), Maloney (Adams), De La Torre (McKennie), Tillman (Gio), Vazquez (Balogun), Weah (Fossey)
     
  6. headerdunce

    headerdunce Member

    Dec 19, 2005
    I like the Eleven Bravo lineups overall.

    To me, Fossey meets the eye test and I want to see him with the USMNT a few more times. It’s just a hunch, but I think he has a lot of upside.

    De La Torre is another interesting player. Depending on the coach and system, he might develop into a key player for us.
     
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  7. Seanin

    Seanin Member

    Feb 14, 2003
    I would like to see whoever comes in try a more direct style of play that perhaps features some overlooked players like Zendejas, Vazquez and Cowell. I wouldn’t mind seeing more of Maliney either. I felt the team was just a little too dainty under Berhalter.
     
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  8. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    A coaching change is not a rebuild. What Berhalter introduced is very European and easy to understand. I don't get the grief here.
     
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  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Positional play fundamentals are in like 75%-80% of offenses of teams that aren't straight out bunkering at this point. The devils in the details, of course, but a LOT of coaches will be able to walk in and build rather than tear down and restart.
     
  10. bsky22

    bsky22 Red Card

    Dec 8, 2003
    Easy to understand? It didn't look like the players understood at all. He changed the focus of how they were going to play multiple times. I think we just saw what he was trying to do wasnt working. Are you suggesting they are going to hire someone else to implement Berhalter's philosophies?
     
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  11. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What I’m looking at for the rest of 2024 (assuming we’re playing some variation of a 4231)….

    SEPTEMBER
    GK Patrick Schulte, Matt Freese, Roman Celentano
    RB Joe Scally, Marlon Fossey
    CB Walker Zimmerman, Cameron Carter-Vickers
    CB Miles Robinson, Chris Richards
    LB Jedi Robinson, John Tolkin
    MF Weston McKennie, Lennard Maloney
    MF Yunus Musah, Johnny Cardoso
    RM Tim Weah, Kevin Paredes
    AM Gio Reyna, Malik Tillman
    LM Christian Pulisic, Griffin Yow
    FW Folarin Balogun, TBD (Pepi, Sargent, Wright, Vazquez, Pefok)

    OCTOBER
    GK Matt Turner, Gabriel Slonina, Ethan Horvath
    RB Joe Scally, Bryan Reynolds
    CB Auston Trusty, Mark McKenzie
    CB Chris Richards, TBD
    LB Jedi Robinson, Caleb Wiley
    MF Tanner Tessmann, Gianluca Busio
    MF Yunus Musah, Luca de la Torre
    RM Tim Weah, Diego Luna
    AM Gio Reyna, Brenden Aaronson
    LM Christian Pulisic, Paxten Aaronson
    FW TBD, TBD

    NOVEMBER
    GK TBD1, TBD2, Diego Kochen
    RB Joe Scally, Fossey/Reynolds
    CB TBD, TBD (Zimmerman, CCV, Trusty, McKenzie, Miles, Richards)
    CB TBD, TBD
    LB Jedi Robinson, TBD (Tolkin/Wiley/Lund/Bello/Brown/Gomez)
    MF Weston McKennie, TBD (Adams/other)
    MF Tanner Tessmann, Johnny Cardoso
    RM Tim Weah, Taylor Booth
    AM Gio Reyna, Djordje Mihailovic
    LM Christian Pulisic, TBD
    FW TBD, TBD

    DECEMBER / JANUARY CAMP
    GK Patrick Schulte, Matt Freese, Roman Celentano (Brady)
    RB DeJuan Jones, Nathan Harriel (TBD)
    CB Walker Zimmerman, TBD (TBD)
    CB Miles Robinson, Jalen Neal (TBD)
    LB John Tolkin, TBD (TBD)
    MF James Sands, Daniel Edelman (Atencio)
    MF Cole Bassett, Jack McGlynn (TBD)
    RM Diego Luna, TBD (TBD)
    AM Djordje Mihailovic, TBD (TBD)
    LM Ben Cremaschi, Brian Gutierrez (TBD)
    FW Duncan McGuire, Jesus Ferreira (TBD)

    Comments:
    New coach should explore the player pool. After January Camp, the player pool should be narrowed down to about 30-40 players.
     
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  12. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I'm really looking forward to seeing what a different coach does with this team. I think a lot of our current assumptions about how we line up and the specifics of which players should be in certain roles may change under a different coach with a new approach. We've gotten really locked into a single framing for a lot of guys and the idea of a small number of specific roles on the field we must have at all times and playing from a pretty standard formation. This could easily change under a different coach. For example, Pulisic is specifically a left-wing for the US playing high on a 3-man front line. He may occasionally swing to the right during a game, but he is almost exclusively a left wing for the US. Yet, for his clubs he's often played on the right, and he's taken a few turns playing centrally as well. I'd really interested in getting Pulisic some time in a #10 role and like the idea of getting our best player the most involved as we can. I think that can happen with his playing centrally. Just ran across this article showing Leao at Milan saying he'd like to play with Pulisic at the 10 so I'm not alone thinking he'd be a good option to play centrally:

    https://prosoccerwire.usatoday.com/2024/07/31/leao-prefer-pulisic-play-as-no-10-ac-milan/

    When I think of rebuilding this team, I think about what players to keep, who to bring in and who needs to be less a factor, but also how do we want to deploy players in ways we haven't seen over the last few years.
     
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  13. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After watching the Olympics, I'm excited to see how Yow develops. He's got that direct attacking mindset that feels rare amongst USA players. I'm very curious to see where his ceiling might be...
     
  14. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Breath of fresh air.
    He is the type of bench spark we may need going forward. At least against CONCACAF competition at first.
    Then as he grows and matures he may be even good against World Cup type of completion.
     
  15. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Young guys will definitely emerge but feels like the core group will be mostly the same under any coach. It’s more on the fringes where you may see new faces. A new coach could prefer Tolkin to Lund for instance, but the core guys are going to be the same.
     
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  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    A new coach will be be really interesting. Especially since, as all the scuttlebutt was about, Marsch was close to being hired. He's been a system coach and not a system we're recently been used to, so Crocker is likely not wedded to many of those assumptions himself.

    Even before we get to something like what position should be put Pulisic at, we have to see:
    • Do we hire a system coach?
    • Where on the total talent spectrum does that coach see our pool? How capable do they think we are? And what effect does that have on broader style of play discussions?
    We have a pool in transition -- a mix of skilled guys but we're not 30 deep in them. I think that makes some of the choices hard. We do have a number of versatile players (and we have moved them around more than people think) but we also have guys who have very specific skillsets and roles. Will a different coach be better at getting guys to alter their games as well?

    While I'm all for seeing how a different coach sees different players -- I do think Berhalter locked some guys into very specific spots too quickly -- I think a lot of that is secondary to the basics of the attack. We did play Pulisic in different spots at times -- he was central early on, for example, but we very much stuck to the 5 in attack set up where we didn't do much positional interchange or overload.

    The next coach might think more like you and pull us back quite a bit until more than half our players are at a skill level. Or he might exile some players we see as essential for not fitting what he wants to do -- for example, in certain set ups, Dest might find himself at winger ... or on the bench. If we go the other way -- push skills, we might see McKennie moved outside ... or benched. And Adams might end up as a bench player.

    I'm not sure any of those are the right moves, but I think part of Berhalter's issue in the final year here was making sure to try and fit all the best players together but we ended up lacking identity and just compensated left and right instead of leaning in anywhere.

    Reyna will the other fascinating person. Is he benched or not called in until he gets club time? A 10? A regista? A forward? He did all of those roles with Berhalter.
     
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  17. bsky22

    bsky22 Red Card

    Dec 8, 2003
    Hahaha... this is dumbest question I have seen on here for some time.
     
  18. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    #143 nobody, Aug 1, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2024
    You may think the answer is obvious, but Marsch was almost the coach, and he stated publicly that he'd consider Reyna a bench option since he was not playing at his club. He would not be the only coach who would take this approach. Berhalter was actually more forgiving of guys not playing for their clubs than most. So, it may be a question that has a clear answer for some people, but for many, including some potential coaches, the answer is not so clear or may go in another direction.

    For me, something I could really see changing is that sure on a pure skill level we can say the same 11 are the same 11, but most coaches don't care about having the most talented players all together and are looking at what they get from the whole. They may well decide we have a small number of key players who need to be on the field and fill around them with role players who are more suitable to the role than absolutely the best players. Happens all the time.

    For example, if a coach does not play 3 up top, that probably sends Weah to the bench. We have a lot of midfielders getting time at solid clubs, the shape and style of the midfield will make a big difference who gets those spots. Some coaches might see Maloney starting regularly in the Bundesliga and consider that a safer bet than guys like Musah who play spot minutes and get moved around a lot or Adams with his injury record until he gets back on the field regularly. If a coach wants to play 3 center backs, that changes things significantly. McKennie is a guy who can be played in many roles and could be seen as a wide player based on his position at Juve. What does a new coach think about playing guys who don't play regularly would absolutely be a factor in who gets minutes, which could affect Reyna or Turner for a couple examples. If Tim Ream loses his place at Fulham does that mean a new coach moves on quickly? If he doesn't want the fullbacks bombing forward, is Dest still an inked in starter.

    I don't know if any of these things will happen and probably more likely is a new guy comes in with his own ideas that I've not thought of that change some things around. But, none of those I threw out there are far from typical decisions we see all the time. And really, if we don't want anything to change, why change Berhalter at all? If we are looking to change things up and rebuild, just fiddling around the edges is only going to get you so far. Just saying, oh play the same lineup, same formation but tell Gio to push forward more or tell the team to play more quickly isn't going to be some earth-shattering revolution.
     
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  19. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    Really want to see Yow on the next senior roster. Paredes too.

    Would like to see Cowell and Zendejas get another look at some point as well, both are playing well in Mexico.
     
  20. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I like the way Cowell plays and would like to see him too.
    Zandejas though is not my cup of tea but hey, everyone may get a chance under a new manager. Bring in as many players as you can and see if they have a role in the new tactics.
     
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  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yes, it's not uncommon at all for national team coaches to set lines like "you must be playing at club" to be called up. I personally would call in Reyna, but there's plenty of national team coaches with this rule. As you mention, Marsch is apparently one.

    Furthermore, since the zeitgeist around here seems to be that Berhalter was too soft on the guys and too many guys had guaranteed spots ... one would think this idea would be well supported. After all, what's the more indicative of not earning your spot than not playing at club and walking into the starting lineup?

    But people don't want it done to their favorite players.

    For much of the first cycle, Berhalter didn't seem to load up on the most talented alone, and the team did better. In the second cycle, we seemed to favor talent and potential, and the intensity and focus seemed to waver. There might just be a lesson there.

    I don't know that there's an earth-shattering revolution here to be had and if we fired Berhalter looking for that, I think there's a very good chance everyone is disappointed.

    A new coach may bring a lot of completely different ideas and I don't know if that will be good or bad.

    But I think we can justify a change entirely on the backs of a change and improvement in focus and intensity. And I think there's very likely some smaller changes in terms of tactical details or choices that may improve things -- stuff that frankly it is hard to tell from the outside.

    I don't know that we need massive changes, except maybe to go back to a more aggressive defense or in the focus and mindset.

    If we make a massive leap in the next two years, I expect it to be via player development.
     
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  22. HScoach13

    HScoach13 Member+

    Nov 30, 2016
    Club:
    Atlanta
    "Zendejas" was playing well until he got his leg broken.
     
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  23. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    IMO club play earns you a look with the national team, performing internationally is what keeps or loses your spot.

    I'm 100% in agreement with not bringing new guys into the fold unless they're playing regularly at club level, but once you do earn a callup your place in the team should on what you do with the national team.

    If a guy is playing regularly for his club, gets called in, impresses with the NT, and subsequently loses his spot at his club I don't have a problem with continuing to call him in as long as he continues to perform for the NT.
     
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  24. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’ve heard Zendejas has been playing well in Mexico recently, which is great. From what I’ve seen from him so far in Nats games, he’s really going to need to up his game to impress me.

    From his time on the National team thus far, I’m dubious whether he’s got what it takes to contribute. I hope I’m wrong!
     
  25. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My shortlist for the player pool for remainder of the year.

    GOALKEEPERS
    1. Matt Turner, 2. Patrick Schulte, 3. Gabriel Slonina, 4. Roman Celentano, 5. Ethan Horvath, 6. Diego Kochen, 7. Chris Brady

    ….This position is wide open. Turner should not be locked in as a starter.

    RIGHT BACKS
    1. Joe Scally, 2. Marlon Fossey, 3. Bryan Reynolds, 4. DeJuan Jones (Dest injured)

    …While Dest is hurt, Scally is the unquestioned starter. We need to see if Fossey and Reynolds can contribute. We need more depth.

    CENTER BACKS
    1. Walker Zimmerman, 2. Chris Richards, 3. Miles Robinson, 4. Cameron Carter-Vickers, 5. Auston Trusty, 6. Mark McKenzie

    …Zimmerman looks like a starter. Who is his partner? Tim Ream needs to be retired.

    LEFT BACKS
    1. Jedi Robinson, 2. John Tolkin, 3. Caleb Wiley, 4. Jonathan Gomez, 5. Kristoffer Lund, 6. Nathaniel Brown, 7. George Bello

    …Jedi is the starter. Who is the back up? Should Paredes be counted as a left back? Is Tolkin ready? Will Gomez stick with the US? How will Wiley start his European career? What about Lund or Brown? Is Bello still a factor. A lot of questions.

    MIDFIELDERS
    1. Weston McKennie, 2. Yunus Musah, 3. Johnny Cardoso, 4. Tanner Tessman, 5. Luca de la Torre, 6. Lennard Maloney, 7. Gianluca Busio (Adams injured)
    …New manager has to figure out how he wants to get our midfield running. We have good options. And we might could move a player or two to the wing if we need it.

    ATTACKERS
    1. Christian Pulisic, 2. Gio Reyna, 3. Tim Weah, 4. Kevin Paredes, 5. Griffin Yow, 6. Malik Tillman, 7. Brenden Aaronson, 8. 8. Paxten Aaronson, 9. Taylor Booth, 10. Diego Luna (Zendejas injured)

    …We need Gio to find the right club. Desperately. We might could play Musah, McKennie, or De La Torre higher up the field, or we could steal Sargent and Wright from the forward position. New coach needs to sort this out, and figure out our depth options.

    FORWARDS
    1. Folarin Balogun, 2. Josh Sargent, 3. Haji Wright, 4. Ricardo Pepi, 5. Brandon Vazquez, 6. Jordan Pefok

    …Our new manager needs to figure out our 9 in a way that Gregg never could. We have some options. But someone needs to step up too.
     

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