Rebuild after Copa, 2 years before the big show

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Jul 2, 2024.

  1. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    While we're at it...have SUM pressure CONCACAF to have us play home and away for the entire Nations League group, don't start in the quarter finals. Make it more like the hex/ocho. When you're regularly stomping the Central American teams home and away, start having the discussions that maybe you're too good for CONCACAF. it seems to be an obvious difference between say what the Dempsey/Bradley generatoins faced and what the current pool faces. Learn to win in hostile places.

    I understand, thhere's risk you might get grouped, I see why CONCACAF went that direction after Couva, but we have to stop being afraid somewhere...
     
  2. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Sep 28, 2019
    Ohio
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I'm sure he would adjust just fine. He's an international guy who understands soccer on a deeper level than Berhalter.
    Pretty much all national managers started at clubs. So they all had to adjust.
    He a foreigner who is used to working with Americans. That's what we need.

    He would get more goal production out of our guys for sure.
     
  3. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "youre sure" ok, got it.

    i dont know if he would or not....

    but he cannot use the same methods that he used to be successful in MLS with the USMNT....which is a very important point to be made

    is he better than berhalter? sure

    but thats not the bar

    a zillion coaches are better than nepo-gregg
     
  4. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    this has been explained 100 times, teams have to want to play the us and they have to have open dates too.

    oh and lets get an a team then we'll worry about the b team lol
     
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  5. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    so them having similar base pay is just an accident?
     
  6. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Sep 28, 2019
    Ohio
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    anyways, the point was that we are not getting a top global super star coach like klopp/pep/mourinho.

    they can make a lot more money elsewhere and why would they deal with the headaces of US soccer.

    our problems are also systemic. just fixing the coach isn't going to fix all the problems.

    we just aren't very good at developing talent.

    we have corporatized the game too much.
    i have the answers to fixing it but no one will listen. you have to get the kids alot more minutes at a low cost. this mean letting them play unstructured during and after school. that's the best way. its actually quite do-able but with no money in it there is no incentive.
    also set up year round rec clubs. now the rec clubs are about 3-4 months per year. needs to be year round for ages 5-10. there's a way to structure it where it doesn't have to be expensive. then after that can go to a comp club.
     
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  7. HScoach13

    HScoach13 Member+

    Nov 30, 2016
    Club:
    Atlanta
    And McBride said the exact opposite on Golazo.
     
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  8. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Sep 28, 2019
    Ohio
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    soccer doesn't have to be expensive. i play pickup games all the time at basically no cost (just the puggs and balls). there are plenty of parks around. i guess no one else sees it.
     
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  9. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    youre all over the place...i was only talking about the next coach...and why nancy might not be a good fit

    if the next coach wants to make the usmnt into a club team....with a complex system with a bunch of reads and video sessions etc just won't work due to logistics

    there are PLENTY of amazing coaches in the US' budget gmafb

    this narrative that budget forced us into having greggg and that he is the top of our price range is asinine

    the problem isnt the talent.....its that all of the players are merely individually talented.....and arent very good in terms of working together

    id say the usmnt has better talent than a team like uruguay...or pretty similar....urugauy only succeeds because they play better collectively.....and part of that is indeed in their dna.....they have a national style of play...its easy for the young players to pick up


    idk if the next coach can actually fix this issue...but i do think greggg was just about the wrost possible at this very important aspect of the game.
     
  10. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Sep 28, 2019
    Ohio
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    i think uruguay has better players for sure.
    their game IQ is way higher. they have all played way more minutes throughout their lives. they were playing as soon as they could walk and played out side with random kids and that's where you build your foundation. then they get into very smart acadmies and then go play in brazil and then europe. the entire SA continent is just a factory for soccer talent.

    But back to coaches,
    I'm suggesting coaches on the level Bielsa, who just beat us, and Marsch, who advanced. I would put Nancy and Porter on a similar level as them. Bielsa has more experience but he kinda petered out in the club scene recently.
     
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  11. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    game iq is higher but that doesnt make them better. i think they have better defense and defenders......i think the us has better attackers and better individual talent. take a player like darwin nunez.....hes never done anything of note in any game ive seen.....totally invisible vs the usmnt. now, if you wanna talk about saurez, cavani, forlan....then yeah.....but this current uruguay group is roughly equal to the usa, in my humble opinion....i mean theyve played berhalter 3 times....and it was a draw every single game! what more do you want???

    youre just sweating the history and aura of uruguay
     
  12. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Sep 28, 2019
    Ohio
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Uruguay may not have the strongest team right now, but they are better than the USA.
    They could take Cavani out of retirement and he would be by far better than any current US player, at his age.

    Darwin Nunez is better than any US player.

    The rest of the squad it seems may be on par with us.

    Suarez is a legend of the game, he just has cranky knees at his age, but he still is great.

    The bigger picture is that Uruguay is a beast of a little country that has done well in a very competitive continent. They have won Copa America 15 times (tied with Argentina).

    They are like the Croatia of SA. Croatia sends a lot of player also to Europe and their top players are better than our top players. But sure overall maybe we are on par with them.

    But you also have to look at the talent generated on a per capita basis.

    Uruguay has a population of 3.4 million.
    USA has 333 million.

    We literally have 330 million more people than Uruguay. Yet you are proud that we are about as good as them.

    You are basically of the mentality of the typical American who is proud of us no matter what. You think we are awesome when we beat Kitts and Nevis or whatever the hell its called.

    This is why we are stuck. We are arrogant and we overinflate our actual talent level.

    No one wants to actually have an honest conversation about it. No one wants to look under the hood, accurately diagnose the issues and fix them.

    Hence why nothing will change for a long long time.
     
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  13. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Uruguay also has a lot of solid young players. They won the U20 World Cup and to me were the best young TEAM (cohesive unit) in South America that I have seen in a very long time.

    They know how to play together. They know each other's strengths and intricacies. They do whatever it takes to win or die on the field trying.
    That is their culture. USA talent has a long way to go to be like that.
     
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  14. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    The over reactions on here are absolutely ridiculous. Losing to Panama and Uruguay sucked. It sucked really bad. But you know what sucked 1000% worse? Losing to TNT in 2017 and not making the WC. But the sky didn't fall in after that. Stadiums weren't empty of fans. Talent didn't disappear. Young kids didn't stop playing soccer.
    MLS attendance has increased 25% since 2017 (8.2 million to 10.9). We have a deeper player pool with players at good European teams, and MLS is churning out pretty good young talent that is more and more getting bought up by big European clubs.
    We lost. It sucks but that happens in sport. That's what makes sports great, the winning and losing. If you can't handle the lows then maybe you should consider getting out of sports all together. Because crap like this will happen again. We'll pick ourselves up and get back to it. Then it will happen again.
    Italy missed 2 WCs back-to-back but won the Euros in between them. Crap happens.
    All the doom saying about 2017 never happened. And all the doom saying about this won't happen either.
    And stop saying stupid crap like, "If they keep Greg, I won't ever watch a US game again." Yes you will. Then you'll get on here with the rest of us soccer nerds and complain about it.
    I was at the Kickers game last night. We were up 1-0 then Madison scored in the 89th minute. We then scored in the very last seconds of extra time off a corner kick. It was F****ING amazing. The entire crowd went from being crushed to overjoyed in a matter of minutes. That's why we love this game. Deal with the lows.
     
  15. bsky22

    bsky22 Red Card

    Dec 8, 2003
    So because this tournament isn't worse than the worst thing to happen to the USMNT in the last 35+ years, it isnt that bad? That is an odd measuring stick. Your description of 2017 isn't quite accurate. Lots of people stopped showing up and a lot of those people still haven't come back.

    Why is MLS attendance up? I dont think says what you are implying.

    Why do MLS fans think they get to decide how everyone else is supposed to be a fan? What makes it worse is I don't know any other sports fans that "fan" the way they suggest. Even better, if we don't want to get in line with their views, they suggest we should "consider getting out of the sport". Like MLS, the MLS fan doesn't give a damn about growing the game, as long as they are on top, they are satisfied.

    Do you not care about any of the stories coming out? After trying to sell us on culture for six years, it appears the culture is absolutely rotten for competing. It isnt surprising this group have pretty much underperformed the whole time under this coach.
     
  16. bsky22

    bsky22 Red Card

    Dec 8, 2003
    So in addition to MLS attendance growing by 25% since 2017(looks like you are looking at regular season), MLS has expanded by by 31%.

    Because of expansion, I prefer to look at average attendance. That is about as flat as you can get and was down from 2017 in all years except the most recent.

    Looking at trends of past new clubs, shows that initial excitement usually wears off within a few years (more on this below). Low and behold, the 7 new teams that have joined the league since 2017 have an average attendance above the league average. I dont feel like doing the math, but the simple interpretation is the average attendance for teams in existence in 2017, has been down since then.

    Apparently, 10 of the 25 MLS team that have at least 4 years of history had their highest attendance in their first three years of existence. Might need to dig into this a little more.
     
  17. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Average attendance has been 26000 for this season, which is excellent for the sizes of the stadiums. The next level for the league is TV money.
     
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  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Red Card

    Dec 8, 2003
    The stadiums were their choice and probably only to create false scarcity so they can extract money from the fools. How many actually sell out regularly besides ATX and LAFC?

    The full season averages for 2017 and 2023 are roughly 22k. It gets a bit messy trying to compare partial seasons and full seasons.
     
  19. bsky22

    bsky22 Red Card

    Dec 8, 2003
    I went back and looked at which franchises had attendance about the 2023 league average of 22K. Not sure these 8 franchises tell a good story when looking at their 2023 average attendance vs previous highs.

    Strong but a little early to tell
    CIN - 25K vs previous high of 27K in 2019
    CLT- 35K vs previous high of 34K in 2022

    First real darlings are down 10% to 25%
    ATL - 48K vs previous high of 53K in 2018
    SEA - 32K vs previous high of 44K in 2015

    Two of the better expansions are mixed.
    TOR- 25K vs previous high of 28K in 2017
    POR - 23K vs previous high of 25K in 2019

    Early teams who may be finally figuring some things out.
    LAG - 23K vs previous high of 29K in 1996
    NE - 23K vs previous high of 21K in 1997
     
  20. bsky22

    bsky22 Red Card

    Dec 8, 2003
  21. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Current attendence levels place MLS 6th world-wide.
    EPL: 39K
    B1: 39K
    Serie A: 31K
    La Liga: 29K
    Ligue 1: 27K
    MLS: 26K
     
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  22. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
  23. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    This is a leftover from Earnie Stewart and the Dutch 4-3-3
     
  24. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    The problem is with Nation's League in Europe + WC Qualifying, there are very few dates for games with strong Euro teams. Maybe we can get a few more with SA teams, but it is a very crowded calendar.
     
  25. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Sep 28, 2019
    Ohio
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--

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