Rebuild after Copa, 2 years before the big show

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Jul 2, 2024.

  1. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    They have to pay the coach the same as the women’s coach so you have to keep that in mind when dreaming of the next coach
     
  2. melatoninlol

    melatoninlol Member

    Seattle Sounders
    United States
    Oct 27, 2019
    Near Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From a 10000 feet up view, why did we need to "change the way the world views US Soccer" to begin with? Winning is all that matters. I guarantee we'd have more attention on the men's side in this country if we actually went and you know? won a major tournament like Copa, or at least made a deep run like the 2002 team in the next world cup? Having the luxury/mandate to play beautiful soccer only comes after you have the winning and attention or if it's actually baked into the culture of your country (Brazil and the Dutch being the two main examples).

    Beating Mexico has been great but we've quickly found that they're in a multigenerational downturn and us getting jobbed by a damn canal because our coach is being outmanaged by a guy from a fjord is embarrassing. Win big games! We have plenty of high personality guys that would be big stars in the culture of this country if we're successful. Channel our inner Al Davis and JUST WIN BABY.
     
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  3. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Can you elaborate? I see a guy who walked into an absolutely loaded Real Madrid, won some stuff, then stepped away. I'm not a RM fan or a follower of La Liga - do people talk about his tactics, was he a good man manager, or did he just know enough to let the stars cook - which isn't going to work for our much less luminous stars :)

    What makes you think he's capable of taking on the US player pool and getting results.
     
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  4. dethfire

    dethfire Member

    Jun 24, 2005
    The US is not a sexy soccer position, hate to break it to you. Unless we give max $$$, we're not landing a big name and we can't give max $$$ because we don't have it. Fire beerholder, but keep investing I the youth systems.
     
  5. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's the point? US Soccer is fine with being average, so we should not expect the MNT to do well in 2026.

    In fact, I will be shocked if the USA even wins 1 match in the World Cup.

    USMNT: A Perennial Disappointment
     
  6. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #31 Eleven Bravo, Jul 3, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2024
    Trying to think of a player pool in a post-Berhalter era, which will still be shaped by the Olympics too…

    1) I want us to try the 4231, 41212, and maybe 532 formations. The last one might not be necessary, but I believe we need at least two different go-to formations that we can use on different occasions against different teams.

    2) The immediate player pool of actual players I would try to call in (in bold only):

    (5) GOALKEEPERS: Matt Turner, Ethan Horvath, Roman Celentano, Gabriel Slonina, Patrick Schulte
    Monitor: Chris Brady, Diego Kochen, Matt Freese

    Comments: Turner should no longer be a locked in starter. I would want to see if Celentano, Schulte, and/or Slonina can replace Turner. If Slonina/Schulte have a good Olympics, and a good start to 24/25, I wouldn’t mind experimenting to see if they can surpass Turner. And, I like Celentano. I think Berhalter undervalued him.

    Horvath is an uninspiring depth option that we can’t afford just yet to cut loose.

    Freese is having a good year but I’m not ready to promote him yet. Callender isn’t it, IMO. Good athleticism but not steady enough. Steffen has regressed. Johnson should be done. It’s probably too early on Kochen, Brady, and others.

    (5) RIGHT BACKS: Sergino Dest (Injured), Joe Scally, Bryan Reynolds, DeJuan Jones, Marlon Fossey
    Monitor: ???

    Comments: We jinxed ourselves last cycle by talking about our depth at right back. With Dest out, Scally is it. Maybe, Reynolds can step up. We’ll hopefully see at the Olympics. Jones could slide to the right ~ and he looks to be okay there. I think Fossey needs to get a look.

    Whereas, Moore isn’t it. Lennon is MLS level. Harriel needs to do more. Cannon has fallen off. Yedlin is finally old. And there really aren’t any other promising prospects.

    Maybe we can recruit Colombian dual national, Devan Tanton, at Fulham? That’s a complete wild card, and a mention more out of desperation than recognition that he’s ready. Also, there’s way too young, Wesley Okoduwa of Wolverhampton and England.

    Either way, right back is a problem. We might have to convert some players to cover there. Such as, Weah, McKennie, Paredes, etc.

    (6) CENTER BACKS: Miles Robinson, Chris Richards, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Auston Trusty, Mark McKenzie, Walker Zimmerman
    Monitor: Jalen Neal, Max Dietz (Injured), Grayson Dettoni, Noahkai Banks, Joshua Wynder (Injured?), Tyler Meiser (dual national)

    Comments: Thank you, Tim Ream, but it’s time to move on. Aside from that, there aren’t a lot of possible surprises hiding in MLS or elsewhere. The depth is, what it is. So, the new coach is going to have to figure out to make it work.

    That said, maybe keep a close eye on Jalen Neal and Max Dietz. They might get promoted sooner than later. And/or if someone like Dettoni or Banks breaks through in Europe, they might get put on the accelerated track. But we need to wait and see. They’re a long way off.

    (5) LEFT BACKS: Jedi Robinson, Kevin Paredes**, Kristoffer Lund, Caleb Wiley, John Tolkin
    Monitor: Jonathan Gomez, Nathaniel Brown, George Bello, Christian McFarlane (dual national), Manu Romero

    Comments: The most irreplaceable player on our team, besides Pulisic, is Jedi. But who is his back up? Lund probably isn’t it. I don’t think he’s ready yet. Paredes is probably the most likely candidate, but he might be needed at wing. Either way, Paredes should immediately get more of a look. Then, I would look closely at Wiley and Tolkin. Both of them would get some game time if I were the coach.

    And then, I would monitor Jonathan Gomez, George Bello, Nathaniel Brown, and based on their form next season, they might get called in in order to properly evaluate them.

    (4) HOLDING MIDS: Tyler Adams, Johnny Cardoso, Tanner Tessmann, Lennard Maloney
    Monitor: Aidan Morris, James Sands, Daniel Edelman, Josh Atencio, Taha Habroune, Pedro Soma, Ethan Kohler, Robert Deziel

    Comments: 2 years ago, we had no depth at the 6, and with Adams’ injury history, it appeared we should abandon the 6 all together. Now, we have a little more breathing room. Adams is hopefully healthy. Then, Johnny is ready for prime time. I still like Maloney. And Tessman appears ready for a shot too.

    Heck, we might even decide to play with two 6’s in order to push our two way mids further up in the attack (in order to cover for lack of depth at wings).

    That said, the rest of the options, besides maybe Aidan and Sands, seem a long way off.

    (4) TWO WAY MIDS: Weston McKennie, Yunus Musah, Luca de la Torre, Gianluca Busio
    Monitor: Jack McGlynn, Rokas Puktsas, Cole Bassett, Noel Buck (dual national), Adrian Gill (Injured), Cruz Medina, Zach Booth, Owen Wolff

    Comments: McKennie and Musah are solid. I still like Luca. Maybe Busio is finally ready. Either way, he should be ready for more of a shot.

    McGlynn, Puktsas, and Bassett are the most promising young options right now. Neither are ready yet. But we need to keep a close eye on them.

    The rest are a long way off.

    (5) ATTACKING MIDS: Giovanni Reyna, Brenden Aaronson, Malik Tillman, Alex Zendejas, Paxten Aaronson
    Monitor: Djordje Mihailovic, Richie Ledezma, Benjamin Cremaschi, Brian Gutierrez, Niko Tsakiris, Cavan Sullivan, Max Carrizo, Jack Mize

    Comments: Reyna is the man that this team needs to run through. He just needs to stay healthy, find the right club, and keep his head on straight.

    Besides him, Brenden is still an option. But he needs to do more. Malik has impressed at the club level but been very terrible at the international level. But it’s too soon to give up on him. Zendejas deserves another chance. But it’s just a chance. I want to see what Paxten can do, if he has a good Olympics, and improves next year.

    There are still some other options. Cremaschi is promising. Mihailovic is having a resurgent year. And others. But they’ll have to wait and see. The rest are too young.

    (3) WINGS: Christian Pulisic, Tim Weah, Taylor Booth
    (12) +Not true wingers: Gio Reyna, Brenden Aaronson, Kevin Paredes, Weston McKennie, Luca De la Torre, Alex Zendejas, Paxten Aaronson, Yunus Musah, Haji Wright, Josh Sargent, Folarin Balogun, Jesus Ferreira
    (1) Dual national priority: Luca Koleosho (injured)

    Monitor: Emmanuel Sabbi, Griffin Yow, Cade Cowell, Esmir Bajraktarevic (dual battle), Diego Luna, Quinn Sullivan, Cole Campbell, Mathis Albert, Nimfasha Berchimas, Konrad De La Fuente

    Comments: As you can see, there’s not a lot of depth here. But we have options to steal from Peter to give to Paul.

    Hopefully, we can persuade Koleosho to join us, and he’ll get healthy.

    Most of our monitoring players are way too young for this cycle, or not really that good.

    (6) FORWARDS: Folarin Balogun, Ricardo Pepi, Josh Sargent, Haji Wright, Brandon Vazquez, Jordan Pefok
    Monitor: Duncan McGuire, Daryl Dike (Injured), Jesus Ferreira, Damion Downs, Kahveh Zahiroslalem, Keyrol Figueroa, Aidan Dausch, Joel Imasuen, Julian Hall, Austyn Jones, Alexander Staff, Rodrigo Neri

    Comments: Balogun appears to be the man. Hopefully he can have a better 24/25 than 23/24. We need him.

    Aside from him, yeah, Pepi, Sargent, and Wright are promising. I still think Vazquez has the raw tools. Pefok can’t be forgotten about either.

    The rest need to do more to be considered.

    Conclusions: In total, that’s approximately a 43 man player pool we need to look at within the next year, while still monitoring the progression of some others.

    Our goal should be to rebound in the next year. Put our stamp on the Nations League, Gold Cup, and schedule as many competitive matches outside of CONCACAF that we can get.

    By this time next summer…. We should be able to make the Copa 2024 and Berhalter a forgotten bad memory.
     
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  7. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The more I see how USSF doesn't care about fielding a competitive MNT, the more sense it makes to me for the USA to withdraw from the World Cup.

    They might as well save themselves the embarrassment of getting grouped in a home World Cup.
     
  8. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    We do NOT want to "rebuild" and we do not need to rebuild. Rebuilding implies that there was a decent structure in place and that structure was somehow damaged. But we had no real structure the entire time we were coached by the Gregg so we have nothing to rebuild upon. We need to eliminate the cancer the infects the USSF and then build on top of that. We need a new direction not a repetition of the old misguided attempts at making USA soccer good. The old ways failed over and over we need new ways.
     
  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Can you give me an example of this occurring?

    How does one jumpstart a culture? How does one influence a youth soccer scene where everyone tells me the issue is the emphasis on winning over learning skills and tactics? How does one get young Americans to prioritize the sport over more popular ones?

    There's no doubt winning gives you some real bump, so I'm not discounting the idea.

    But what country has managed to make a lasting improvement without emphasizing skilled play? I'm not saying we need to play tiki taka -- and I don't think we do despite the criticism -- but does anyone think we're in the same place as Morocco despite similar talent levels. Do you think Morocco is leaping forward? They lost in the first round of AFCON -- this kind of strategy is never consistent as it is an underdog strategy.

    It's a completely different dynamic. For decades, we played hard, overachieved based on conservative tactics, effort and great goalkeeping. I don't even know if that gameplan works anymore given the fact that effort exerts major effort now and we don't have elite goalkeeping/

    I don't know the answer. We have Pulisic and Reyna and Dest -- do we wait for 10 Pulisics to even play the bit of possession ball we do? Is it so bad to try and add a club to our bag, so to speak?

    Anyway, I don't even think the philosophy is really holding us back. Oh, building out of the back cost us against Colombia, no doubt, but otherwise ... that ain't the issue.
     
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  10. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Spain
    Sep 28, 2019
    Mars
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Are you saying they cannot afford a Klopp? I'm not sure what you're saying
     
  11. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    klopp isn't coming

    greg is the coach though atleast the next wc so all of this is speculation.
     
  12. lobomojo

    lobomojo Member+

    Chelsea, Gillingham
    Jul 17, 2004
    Freedom
    Club:
    Chelsea FC

    Heck just double Emma's wages and let her coach both teams. I jest, but she is a far better coach than Berhalter.
     
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  13. jreadusaf

    jreadusaf Member

    Jun 18, 2009
    Tübingen, Germany
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    They just mentioned on Alexi Lalas' Podcast (with guest Rob Stone) that the Men's and Women's salaries for the coach are standalone from one another and would not require any kind of matching salaries. The conversation on the topic starts at 5:17 in the following video:

    Rob Stone on what the United States Men's National Team can do after elimination from Copa América (youtube.com)

    We are hosting the World Cup and the USMNT might be more attractive than in any other year, but Pep and Klopp can have any job anywhere in the world...They may coach the team many years down the line, but not for the foreseeable future.

    Lost in many of the conversations that I've seen on the boards is how poor Pepi was in the tournament. He was really, really bad, like one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a USMNT player in a tournament ever. Pepi has a lot of potential, but to me shouldn't be called in again unless he hits some form with his club team.

    Our center backs are a problem. Time to bring John Brooks back into the fold.
     
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  14. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If John Brooks finds a good club in a good league next year and he’s playing and playing well, then, yes, he should be considered again.
     
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  15. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006

    I saw that on the podcast but isn't it strange that someone even said it was a thing and the fact they make the same is very ironic.

    every position is an issue. I thought flo was really showing signs which is good but there is nobody behind him. There literally is no backup behind pulisic or weah and im not sold on weah on top of that the midfield musah wasn't good, mckennie is heavy and looked less then interested and adams may think he is world class he isn't.

    my point is just that ever position has an issue and there is a huge lack of depth.
     
  16. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #41 IndividualEleven, Jul 3, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2024
    Dropping the mandate that the Senior National team needs to play with a certain formation and in a certain style would be a good first step. The USWNT dropped the clunky 433 as soon as Vlatko had been let go.
     
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  17. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another thing is quit scheduling friendlies on international dates against CONCACAF teams.

    If we need to schedule them for January Camp dates. I don’t mind that. Whatever. In fact, I think it would be a good idea to have a “B team” dates in January, April, August, and December. It would be a good way to introduce youth players.
     
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  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No they don’t

    upload_2024-7-3_17-44-30.jpeg
     
  19. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL
     
  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You need to bookmark this, because tons and tons of posters make the same spurious assertion.
     
  21. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    look a guy like nancy is a good coach....he did great in MLS

    but why???

    because he uses significant video sessions and complex patterns of play with very detailed system and instruction to his players....

    newsflash....that wont be able to be implemented on the usmnt

    international soccer is different

    now im not sure if nancy could adjust and still do well.....

    but if youre going to base his selection on success in mls....it doesnt make sense .....it wont translate.

    people have to look at the actual methods and parameters of international soccer and assess from there......
     
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  22. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe we shouldn’t hire another Crew coach right away…
     
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  23. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Milpitas, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh good, then you can stop posting here, right? Why even post this needlessly dire, and unsupported, sludge?
    JAB should be able to land somewhere, but remember, we auto-start Turner despite his terrible club situation. I think JAB is worth trying even if his club situation is unsettled, like if he's in a Bundesliga side where he's not a locked in starter every week. He brings a ball-playing ability that is sorely lacking, Ream is declining, and Richards just isn't good enough yet. It's worth a look. So are McKenzie, Trusty, etc. We don't have a settled pairing, gotta see what we have, because there's no way we can roll into the WC with Richards/Ream playing the way they have been together.

    I've always liked CCV, but he played his way out of contention in this tournament, for me.
     
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  24. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good post. I worry about that about Nancy too.
     
  25. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Spain
    Sep 28, 2019
    Mars
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    ohhh dang. good point, I totally forgot he coached there.

    kind of ironic though that of the 3, only Berhalter didn't with a title with Crew.
     

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