Real Madrid vs Levante - 28 Nov [R]

Discussion in 'Real Madrid' started by Lockjaw, Nov 26, 2004.

  1. La China Poblana

    May 13, 2003
    Chicago
    Guess I spoke too soon.

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    Real Madrid radical supporters shout slogans as one of them (C) gives a fascist salute during Real Madrid match against Levante at Madrid's Santiago Bernabeu stadium November 28, 2004. Real Madrid won 5-0. REUTERS/Andrea Comas

    [​IMG]

    It appears people are paying closer attention to Real Madrid's fans. Normally when I do a Yahoo News Photos search, there aren't any photos specifically of the crowds. I don't understand what is happening, but it only upsets me more and more. It's as if there is an attitude of resentment or, even worse, solidarity among the participants of the racist activity in Spain. That this continues to happen in the Bernabeu compounds the way I feel.
     
  2. anirbanblah

    anirbanblah New Member

    Jan 16, 2002
    India
    Why can't these people be evicted the way they are in the UK? Or was it one of these jokers that I saw the cops escorting out?
     
  3. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    It is because of the game against England. The English media picked it up. If the game was against Germany, the English media would notcare much. I learned not to trust the journalists.... althrough some of it were probably true.
     
  4. La China Poblana

    May 13, 2003
    Chicago
    Owen wants starting spot

    England striker Michael Owen has vowed to keep fighting for a place in the Real Madrid starting line-up after another substitute appearance led to his now almost customary goal.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3201620

    Real Madrid stays in touch of leader Barcelona in the Spanish league

    MADRID, Spain (AP) - Four goals in 11 minutes allowed Real Madrid to destroy Bernd Schuster's Levante and win over some frustrated fans as it secured second place in the Spanish league standings.

    Madrid's 5-0 win on Sunday put it seven points behind leader FC Barcelona.

    The crowd at the Bernabeu had been restless in the first half, whistling their disapproval at the lack of goals following last week's 3-0 loss to Barcelona and a 1-1 midweek draw with Bayer Leverkusen.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3201690

    5-0: What a hit!

    Ten inspired minutes – from 44th minute to the 54th- were what it took to finish off a Levante that had showed itself to be aggressive only during the first half. The goals from Ronaldo -2-, Figo, Beckham and Owen allow Madrid to keep the Barcelona in perspective and prepare calmly the duel for next week in El Madrigal, where the Portuguese player won´t be able to play due to an accumulation of cards. In any case, Ronaldo already has already been the author of seven goals and he´s getting closer to the pichichi (maximum scorer´s title). There was a prize for the young Javi García, who made his debut at Santiago Bernabéu.

    http://www.realmadrid.com/web_realm...icia.jsp?idnoticia=43619&sec=1&subsec=0&esp=1
     
  5. MadridForever

    MadridForever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 29, 2001
    Madrid, Spain
    I think that if we are going to end always speaking about the same thing, we should merge all the threads of the board with the title "Real Madrid, we are racist, please feel free to insult us".

    Personally, Me and some friends have presented as volunteers to be crucified in Madrid airport, with banners like "spit these motherf*","insult these dreg of society", ... English and other countries tourists will be able to came to Madrid Airport, insult us, look down on us and feel better. They will see a racist for first time in their lifes, because in their countries doesn't exist that kind of garbage, and then they will return to their paradise countries where everything is love and peace.

    I will have to stop my work as volunteer in Real Madrid foundation, but i think that it isn't coherent to help to organize activities to the integration/ education of South American, African, Arabs childs and to be racist at the same time. I think that Real Madrid as institution should do the same. Real Madrid should stop his colaboration with UNICEF, FAO and other institutions around the world.

    And we must accept that some of our players receive racist insults and anything happen.

    http://www.as.com/articulo.html?xref=20041125dasdaiftb_1&type=Tes&d_date=20041125&anchor=dasftb

    Roberto Carlos speaks about Barcelona vs Real Madrid of few weeks ago

    "Me duele un poco que todo el mundo hable de mi fallo en el gol y que nadie hable del trato que recibí durante los 90 minutos. Hay que contarlo todo. Los gritos que profirieron contra mí también son un trato racista. Eso lo sufrí yo y no he dicho nada. Siempre he tenido respeto por todos los aficionados y en Barcelona me han tratado bien, pero lo del sábado no lo entiendo. Es una pena que en el siglo XXI sigan sucediendo cosas así".


    "It hurts me a little that everyone speak about my failure in the goal and anyone speaks about the treat that i received for 90 minutes. We must tell everything. The shouts that i recieved were racists. I suffer it and i didn't say anything. I always have had a great respect fo all the supporters and in Barcelona they have treated me well, but i don't undertand what happened the last saturday. It is a shame that things like this happen in the 20th century"


    Roberto Carlos must learn that if he is Real Madrid player, he is first racist (even if he is black) than human being. He can recieve insults and anything will happen, and anybody will speak about it because he plays in Real Madrid.

    We must accept that if a 16 years old supporter is murdered in a soccer game in turkey (few days ago), and that the news only be reflected in few newspapers, and be forgotten the next day. It hasn't happened in Spain or in Real Madrid, it hasn't any interest (for them). Really hard.

    We must accept that anyone speak about the incidents that happened in the french league few days ago in the game Bastia vs St. Etienne when some supporters BEATED the black players of Bastia.It wasn't in Spain, impossible!!!!!!

    We must accept that another supporter died in a game few month ago in Italy.

    We must accept that a country (England) that have thousands of supporters banned to travel will its NT for create racist/violent incidents, a country whose NT has been threatened to be expelled of the last EUROs (2000 and 2004) think that they have the enough morale weight to call a whole country racist, maybe they should let free that thousands of supporters to see what happen (scream of terror) ....... Spain hasn't any banned supporter and it supporters NEVER has created a violent incident outside Spain ..... very, very strange ....


    We must accept that everything is valid to get a Olimpic City in 2012 ......

     
  6. balla

    balla Member

    Sep 16, 2004
    Melbourne,Australia
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Well now we know why he hasn't been performing lately. Because he still thinks he has the skills of the 20th Century and so he doesn't need to put in any effort.

    BTW it's currently the 21st Century if you didn't get it.
     
  7. kaberon10

    kaberon10 New Member

    Aug 10, 2002
    Evanston
    I think RCarlos said 21st, look at the original interview.

    I tihnk MadridForever is right, once again. While racism is obviously intolerable, and Real should try as hard as they can to eliminate it, it is a much worse problem in other places. The Old Firm match in Scotland is notorious for religious slurring, the English contingent that is banned from travelling, large groups of Lazio and Roma fans (among others) in Italy, the French incidents he mentions, etc. It is important that the media calls attention to racism wherever it appears so that the public will be aware that it exists and critical of establishments that allow it, but it is also important that the media reports it everywhere it appears equally (don't focus on Madrid when there are more racist things happening in France, for instance), and also that the media reports the anti-racism actions as widely as the negative (the upcoming Ronaldo-Zidane UNICEF all-star match, which they do every year, for instance)
     
  8. Pazarius

    Pazarius New Member

    Jan 10, 2004
    England
    Since when has English hooliganism been racist? I'm not trying to defend hooliganism, it's just as reprehensible to me as racism, but in the interests of complete accuracy I have to question your labelling it as racist.

    English hooliganism is the product of a binge-drinking, tribal 'yob' culture. As an ideology, it seems to support violence for violence's sake - no other purpose is evident (unlike fascist groups which support violence in order to persecute minorities/achieve political goals). There also isn't any good evidence of English hooliganism specifically targeting any particular nation or race; they'll fight anyone, even other English hooligans.

    As to the reaction to racism in Spain... I think the incidents wouldn't have gotten as much attention from foreign governments/press if that Spanish FA hadn't given the impression that they were trying to sweep the matter under the carpet. It wasn't the just the racist incidents, as you say they go on in many countries, it was the seemingly complacent attitude of the authorities.
     
  9. kaberon10

    kaberon10 New Member

    Aug 10, 2002
    Evanston
    rest of article at http://www.guardian.co.uk/hooligans/article/0,2763,1247764,00.html
     
  10. Prenn

    Prenn Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Northern Ireland
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
  11. sendorange

    sendorange Member+

    Jun 7, 2003
    Bigsoccer.com
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The reason why these supporters are banned is because the UK Government did that as an attempt to solve the problem. It's what is known as "taking action", something the Spanish FA and Real Madrid seem to be completely incapable of doing to their racists, hence the criticism.
     
  12. La China Poblana

    May 13, 2003
    Chicago
    Real coach keeps title hopes after 5-0 win

    MADRID, Nov 29 (Reuters) - Real Madrid coach Mariano Garcia Remon believes his team can still wrest the Primera Liga title from runaway leaders Barcelona despite a seven-point deficit entering December.

    Garcia Remon was delighted with the 5-0 thrashing of 10th-placed Levante on Sunday, a 13-minute spree of four goals either side of the break settling the points for second-placed Real.

    "My congratulations to the players ... I said at the start of the week that we should not be ruled out for any title. Real Madrid are going to fight for everything," Garcia Remon was quoted saying on the club website.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=reu-real&prov=reuters&type=lgns

    Iker's got his priorities straight:
    "The main thing is to win the three titles at stake: the Primera Liga, the King's Cup and the Champions League. Everything else is secondary."

    Love that kid... :)

    Luis Figo: “We are very much alive and the season is very long”

    Figo stands up. He does it after victories and after defeats. In his statements to the sport newspaper As, the Portuguese player showed respect for the critics, but he is convinced that the team will keep on with its ascension. There were many who said that Real Madrid was old and that it was the time for a change of cycle in the "Galactic team". Luis Figo speaks loud and clear. These are his words.

    http://www.realmadrid.com/web_realm...icia.jsp?idnoticia=43633&sec=1&subsec=0&esp=1
     
  13. Mobile

    Mobile New Member

    Jul 29, 2002
    Melbourne


    Do you really think that weak sarcasm is the best way to combat racism? Perhaps you think it is appropriate to try and deflect attention away from the racist thugs in your support by pointing out the deficiencies in other countries' fans. But it doesn't really work like that. Address the problem yourself, then you can spout as many sarcastic comments about hooligans as you like.
     
  14. Oscar

    Oscar Member+

    Nov 30, 2001
    Holland
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    The KKK aren't racist either, apparently they just lost a football match against a black team a long time ago to make the violence against them 'non-racist'. :D

    How the Hell would that not be racist...that isn't two sets of supporter groups going at it. That is a big group of English going out and look for Portuguese people - nowhere near the actual game or country the game took place in by the by - and trying to hurt them simply because of their nationality ('race')
     
  15. Lockjaw

    Lockjaw BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 8, 2004
    Kaiserslautern
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did anyone else see the goal celebrations of Real Madrid? It certainly looked like the Galacticos were enjoying themselves again. After Ronaldo's 2nd goal, Beckham jumped on his back & rode around on him. Figo was laying on the ground, he had been fouled, but the ref played the advantage to RM. Guti came up & dived on Figo as he was lying there - even Figo had to laugh at that. After Owen's goal, he & Guti pointed at each other in a cool way. I have always liked the way the team celebrates together, especially with all the different nationalities.
     
  16. La China Poblana

    May 13, 2003
    Chicago
    I thought the same thing. They all just looked happier than they have in a while (except Raul, who I'm sure felt like crap when everyone else was scoring but him).
     
  17. MadridForever

    MadridForever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 29, 2001
    Madrid, Spain
    Exactly!!!! You get it!!!! My sarcarm worked for you!!!! It would be a great mistake that the supporters of some countries tried to deflect attention away from their racist thugs in their support by pointing out the deficiencies in other countries' fans. IT WOULD BE VERY HYPOCRITICAL ... and i don't go to contribute to that tremendously hypocrital exercise of some interested people trying to center the debate/problem in only one place. For that reason this will be my last post about this subject in RM board.

    Everybody (that doesn't live in Mars) knows that Hooligans is/has been the CANCER of Football/soccer for a very long time, minoritary radical groups has used the world most famous sport to get publicity or obtain addepts. Some countrys have had more problems than others, I don't going to concrete about it because everyone knows what has happened in the last decades, but any country is or has been free of that disgusting incidents.

    One of biggest characteristic of racist people are the prejudices. Those prejudices are reflected in a automatic generalization of a single individual bad behaviour to a whole race, sex, ...... if a black person steal a bag, all the black persons are thiefs,..... if some arabs person made a terrorist attack all the arabs are terrorist .... if some persons make racist sounds in a stadium automatically all the people of the country where is the stadium is racist ... For that reason is very dangerous to generalize. If someone generalize, the people unfairly treated, will create prejudices against the people that treated them bad, And the radical groups lives of that prejudices.
     
  18. Pazarius

    Pazarius New Member

    Jan 10, 2004
    England
    I still don't think they were being targeting simply because of nationality; they were being targeting for being supporters of the team that beat England (not that this reason is any less disgusting). In a tribal culture, people think they have every right to attack someone who openly shows his affiliation to another 'tribe'. The pub in Norfolk was obviously full of supporters of the Portuguese football team come to watch the game; they would have Portuguese flags etc. In a sane world they should have been able to do this without fear of reprisals; I was disturbed but sadly not surprised to hear that they had been targeted by hooligans for it.

    Whenever a national team wins a crucial match in a major tournament, supporters of that team, all over the world, go out onto the streets, again showing flags to support their team. In Jersey and the various other locations mentioned, I suspect it would be these types of groups which were the intentional targets of the hooligans, and they were harassed for openly supporting the team that beat England. Again, the Portuguese supporters were doing nothing wrong and the hooligans deserve all the blame.

    I don't believe that people were targeted purely because they were Portuguese. Mainly because I don't think the average hooligan would be able to successfully identify a Portuguese national if he didn't have a huge flag draped round his body.

    And prejudice against nationality isn't the same as racism. Racism is inherently irrational, as it involves drawing conclusions about an entire race, when the only valid conclusions you can draw about an entire race are superficial and largely irrelevant; variation within a race greatly exceeds the average variation between races.

    With nations however, it isn't so clear; nations have unique cultures and often promote different principles, which is reflected in the people who grow up in that country. Sometimes you can make conclusions about the citizens of a nation which, while never correct for all citizens, are both correct enough to be considered valid (within reason) and very insightful. If you disagree very strongly with a principle, which a large majority of the citizens of a country hold, then a limited amount of prejudice against the citizens of that country is not irrational.

    The KKK hates black people - they've always hated black people and they always will.

    English hooligans seem to hate Portuguese people... no wait, a year ago they hated Turkish people... a few years before then it was Germans... then Italians...

    The hooligans, in my opinion, are too fickle to have any real prejudices apart from perhaps xenophobia. The true motives for their choice of target always comes back to what is currently happening in the football world. While equally odious, I do not believe this counts as racism.
     
  19. Oscar

    Oscar Member+

    Nov 30, 2001
    Holland
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    "The England and Leverkusen players weren't targeted simply because they're black, they were being targeted for being players of the opposing team. You don't see those people make monkey sounds at coloured players from their own team do you."

    Not racism either apparently all of a sudden.

    So they hate more than one nationality.....this would make them any less racist to you? :D
     
  20. La China Poblana

    May 13, 2003
    Chicago
    Zizou: Real squad may be split up

    Zinedine Zidane believes that Real Madrid's squad may be farmed out if the Spanish giants fail to win silverware this season.

    Los Merengues lost 3-0 to Primera Liga top team Barcelona two weeks ago, prompting talk that Real's 'galactico' policy was backfiring and had run its course.

    The Frenchman admitted that, despite their player quality, Real are currently unable to reach their potential.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3208736
     
  21. gazzad_5

    gazzad_5 Member

    Jan 19, 2004
    Re: Zizou: Real squad may be split up

    wow, its weird how different websites edit zidane's interviews to make them sound different. this one for instance makes him sound very negative
    i was reading another, i will try and post the link later if i find it again, where he said these things, but only after he said he believes we will win a major trophy this season, and that soon real will be playing at 100%, he also said we will win in rome
    contrasting feelings given out by the same interview, amazing!
     
  22. La China Poblana

    May 13, 2003
    Chicago
    Re: Zizou: Real squad may be split up

    I've found the same thing. I've read different articles covering the same event or issue, and you'll never get the whole story out of just one.
     
  23. Pazarius

    Pazarius New Member

    Jan 10, 2004
    England
    Except here the similar claim is demonstrably false. Restraint against black players of your own team does not make the charge of racism invalid; the players of England and Leverkusen who weren't black did not receive this abuse. I wonder why not? Because the racist principle of the inferiority of black people was clearly part of the supporters' motivations. The fact that it was not the only selection criteria does not change the fact that the racist motivation was present.

    Again, hating a nation or it's citizens is not racism (although admittedly in some cases it can get just as irrational and offensive). It is misleading to try and claim they are the same thing.

    My point was that any hatreds the hooligans appear to have are transient. They can be forgotten as soon as the next controversial England match with a different
     
  24. Prenn

    Prenn Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Northern Ireland
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Because it was not racially motivated. The motivation behind it was due to the result of a football game. Had England been beaten by the Dutch do you still think those Portugese tourists would have been attacked?

    To put it simply the catalyst for the attack was the result of a football game between two national sides. One side attacked another not because of their skin colour but because of their nationality, they were seen as supporters of the opposing team. . It's the same as fighting between Porto and Arsenal fans (for example) or Sunderland and Newcastle fans, or Barca and Real Madrid fans, or AC Milan and Bayer Leverkusen fans.

    If the booing in Madrid had been directed at all the England players nothing would have been made of it, unfortunately only black players were on the receiving end.
     
  25. Oscar

    Oscar Member+

    Nov 30, 2001
    Holland
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    ¿Any more demonstrably false than basically saying every team that beats England, their supporters get the same sort of treatment that was given to the Portuguese in England? I doubt it.

    Re: Racism
    Re: Race

    Yes it is.

    Had Spain played Portugal, do you think the English black players would have been racially chanted to by the Spanish people at that game? Same thing.

    So if those English people had directed their violence towards the people of all the teams they lost to over the years (and not at the game itself, but in their own country) it wouldn't have been racism either?
     

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