Mod Note : TROLLING WILL NOT BE TOLERATED! Given James' thread has become a bit of a cluster********, time for a new thread. Teso's spot-on post to get things rolling here.
Thoughts - City weren't very good irrespective of what the media tells you. Mancini got away and spectacularly so with a poor set-up. - Evans' red was the game-changer but that doesn't explain why we would let in so many soft goals on the counter. - Part of the blame for the defensive troubles lie with the lack of continuity. That's the first thing Fergie needs to fix. I don't know whether the answer lies in Vidic+Smalling but there is no harm in trying. - We are not out of the league by any stretch of the imagination; we have a good run of winnable games coming up after Everton away. - It is only 3 points. - Some of our fans are a disgrace, both here and in the stadium
When you consider the amount of times we recklessly bomb forward when we are chasing a game a result like this was always on the cards at some stage. Most of the time we either get the goals we require or it does little damage at the other end. Not today. I am angry at the players for naively turning a 'routine' 3-1 defeat into a 6-1 thrashing for the record books. My anger is only intensified when you consider the opposition and the fact we were the better team for the first half of the game and several spells in the second half. We have went from only having problems in central midfield to having problems everywhere. The spine of our side over recent years has disintegrated for a variety of reasons. The defensive quartet of Van der Sar, Ferdinand, Vidic and Carrick is no more and we have simply not adapted. The result is we are weaker defensively (which was previously our strength) and our attack no longer has a platform to perform. We have a keeper who we are blooding in, no set central defensive partnership, two lateral defenders who are struggling, a central midfield of individuals who do not complement each other and an attack with a new winger, forward and Rooney struggling to impose himself the further he drifts from goal. Ferguson needs to find a system and a functional team. The quicker he does so the better.
My thoughts -City showcased how to play against a 10 men opponent - they were almost perfect in the second half. -We need to be smarter when losing. Yes, it matters whether you are losing 1-4 or 1-6, the goal difference might turn out to be very important. Down 1-4, just kill the game off, don't let in soft goals. -Rio-Vidic is still our best partnership in the middle by far. Hopefully they can stay healthy, but they need to play together. -Our next opponents until New Years are Everton (a), Sunderland (h), Swansea (a), Newcastle (h), Aston Villa (a), Wolves (h), QPR (a), Fulham (a), Wigan (h), Blackburn (h). Very soft schedule, we gotta take advantage of it.
I really think Teso summed it up, it was a different match before the goal the commentators even said at the time "scored against the run of play" but the red card left us vulnerable on the counter and it was done. Fergie made a comment about there being "lots of Chicharitos" in the waiting, maybe he's already got signings planned for January
Personally unhappy we lost and very unhappy with our performance on some of the goals. But knowing that our midfield give little cover and that Evra is a weakness is not new. But not that fussed that it was six, its still only three points. We never tend to know the game has gone, that is a major plus most of the time as we sometimes recover seemingly unrecoverable situations. Don't subscribe to either the Mancini fawning or dissing. He has been overly cautious in the past, but you have to give him credit for playing an attacking formation against us. As Teso said we were more than holding our own, but as soon as we lost a player they were just too much for us. City may or may not crack, we just need to focus on our own job and make sure we are there or thereabouts when we play them in the return in April. If SAF and the board realise that we need a left back and a central mid in January then it could work out for the better. Though have been waiting on this the last few transfer windows without any joy.
I just can't believe the league is over in October. Going to be really awkward for some journalist when we end up claiming #20 in May.
Unfortunately nothing is gonna change tactically for us, as everything will be blamed on the red card.
Thanks for starting a new post game thread Rossi. I'm thinking that maybe I should lay low from starting threads for awhile. Not much more I can add to this game other than what you and teso stated. However, I'm going to be a bit of a strategist and conspiracy theorist here. Any credence to the thought that maybe the gaffer has/had some cm targets in mind who are younger and long term, but he wasn't convinced enough to pull the trigger? Maybe he wanted to wait out 6 - 12 months of our transition before seeing what exactly we needed? Maybe he didn't know exactly how young, jones, welbeck and Cleve would integrate. Not in terms of nominal position, but in terms of how they might affect our identity and philosophy? Just some food for thought. I mean, we took 2/3 years to transition last time with tweaks along the way.
I think you've disregarded the fact that Balotelli was one-on-one with the keeper when the red card offence was made, which would have almost certainly made it 0-2. Counter attack is something United have played on a lot away from home, Man City obviously showed they too can play this game. After all that's how Utd played at Anfield, low possesion, few chances, great chances for the opposition but they still managed to come away with a draw. Credit to City they came with a game plan and played it well. Not closing the game down at 0-2 with 10-men was a big mistake, but thinking his teams are invincible is Fergie's biggest flaw.
No, its one of his greatest assets. The number of times we have come from behind to either draw or win is legendary, can't have that without its flipside which is that sometimes when were down we'll get crushed and embarrassed. Its only three points, can't remember any chapionship being decided on goal difference.
The scousers have done the same. We are always going to gamble at home when chasing game. Sometimes we pay the price. We should have held back more at 3 or 4 to 1. Not at 2-0. Not on ferries watch. No chance.
You guys covered the main point there. Having said that, the post was made by a liverpool fan with no history of posting on this board before so I wouldn't be surprised if the post was made with an intention of trolling.
In what way the fans here were a disgrace. That we are not playing well, that we are very disappointed with the loss, that we lost against City, that we were let down, that we need in a lot of things to fix... just asking.
It looked like a lot of the players just gave up. I don't see why fans showing even disgust over that is a bad thing. Even the commentators made a remark that it looked like almost from the beginning that Rooney was about the only Red Devil to whom this game really mattered. I fully understand supporting your team through thick and thin, but when the players have apathy, I don't mind the fans giving them crap over it.
I didn't say it I agreed with the sentiment of Vince. I know where he's coming from tactically speaking of what Fergie did.
I just dont think so James.....When I looked at the starting lineup today I immediately made the point of Carrick not playing.....I havent heard anything about any injury to him because of which he didnt start today.....He's arguably our best CM and not starting him was shocking....We made the same mistake in the Liverpool match and were lucky to get away with it....I thought after seeing how that game panned out we must have learnt a lesson but apparently not....I doubt if Fergie is even considering that as a priority..... Given how the issue of the midfield has been the weakest are for what? like 6 years now I just dont think Fergie has been waiting to pick up a young player this season.....The only reason we got away with the lack of options in midfield throughout the last few years was because of the play of our forwards (i.e Ronaldo,Rooney and Nani at various times) and Scholes playing well along with Carrick.....Why we continue to not address the midfield issue is beyond me.....The fact that I see players running right through the middle of the park without being under any pressure makes me cringe....I have sympathy for our defense because they have had to deal with enormous amounts of pressure just because there's no one marking players ahead of them making runs from deep and are always exposed....You could have Franz Beckenbauer playing alongside Rio Ferdinand in defense but with an abject midfield in front of you, you would still struggle against the top teams..... Get a god damn functional CM/DM for that matter for fcuk's sake man......I do not want to name names here but clearly there are a couple of midfielders in our squad who do not deserve to play at a top club.....If you exclude Cleverley I just dont see any potential......This needs to be addressed.....Going from having arguably the best midfield during the Keane-Scholes era to the midfield now is simply painful..... I am just sitting here feeling so upset about this whole thing.....This might be termed as a rant but its too painful to watch us play like this....I dont know if I have even addressed your point in this post James but I felt like saying this.....
You are a nutter. By every account Carrick was very good in that game. This is back to back matches now where Ando and Fletcher have combined to get boyhandled without ever putting up a fight. The positioning was off AND the effort. If Ando and Cleverley aren't busting their ass, they shouldn't make our reserve team. Fletch won a bit of appreciation with a well taken goal, but that doesn't make up for a dozen heavy touches and shit passes. What are you basing your hate for Rio on? A header? Fine. Bad header by Rio. He's guilty of that. But in the first half when Kun and Balotelli almost never had a touch, who do you think was at the heart of that? The fact is, we disintegrated after going down a man, but for a large portion of the game, Rio/Evans was very solid. You can't look at the result and say because of that our CBs were bad. Evans got beat once today and I don't think Rio got beat at all really. By comparison, Kompany got beat twice by Welbeck and once by Rooney. Not sure who got burned for Fletcher's goal. Citeh were very good in playing on the break and they exploited the space they were offered. There's not much a defender can do in a 2 vs 4 situation. Really there isn't.
Exactly. For three goals at the very least, Evra was to blame. Being in no mans land, leaving Smalling and Rio to sort it out. I don't blame De Gea for any of the goals.
Fergie said in the post match interview, that the fullbacks were pretty much playing as wingers when we conceded the last 3 goals, and that it was a suicidal way to finish. What I wan't to know is, if the management team didn't want them to do it, why didn't they communicate that from the sidelines?