Razov trade rumor

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by Fanaddict, Nov 13, 2004.

  1. partycentral

    partycentral Member

    Nov 10, 2003
    Naperville
    Totally agree. If the only choice is one or the other, I'd rather have Glenn. But really, neither. I'm not going to worry one way or the other. If trades are made, they will happen regardless what the fans think is best for the team. Me, I'm just going to enjoy the Cup this afternoon, drink some beer and rest my aching feet.
     
  2. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right now the Fire have one good forward, Herron, and one forward who is good on his day but who is fragile and streaky, Razov.

    We also have Ralph who is, depending on your opinion:

    a) a potential star who simply had an utterly crappy sophomore season

    b) a flash in the pan who had one good year when nobody knew how to play him

    Let's be charitable and say that a) is more true of Ralph than b).

    That would give us three serviceable forwards in 2005, assuming we sign Herron and don't trade Ralph or Razov.

    So, that's our forward situation.

    Now, how many midfielders do we have who can organize the team on the field? We have Marsch and... uhm... er... OK, we have Marsch. We have a gazillion midfielders on our roster but only one of them has shown any ability as a midfield general. And let's face it, Marsch ain't no Nowak as a midfield general.

    So, between Marsch and Razov, right now assuming we don't go out and get another player to be our 'Nowak Mk II', Razov is the more expendable player. We need to get a midfield leader first or simply accept that Marsch is our midfield general.

    Then we can go out and get a forward besides Herron who can find the back of the goal without needing a map and a GPS.

    Then we have to find someone to plug the gaping hole on the left side of our defense.

    A coach who can motivate players, who doesn't freak out during games and who knows how to use substitutions wisely wouldn't hurt, either, but we'll give Dave another season.
     
  3. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I'm of the mind that Ralph has more upside. It would mean we lose (injuries aside) 10-12 goals, but it's time to see if Ralph can step it up.

    Razov's time is almost done. I would keep him if we were on the cusp of a Championship and those goals were the deciding factor. Unfortunately we suck and I don't think his goals would have been the difference this year. Not next either.
     
  4. Fuegofan

    Fuegofan Member+

    Feb 17, 2001
    Chicago
    So if Razov to Metro, with a multiteam deal, any way we could get back former Fire Reserves Magee and Grabavoy? I doubt it, and I don't know Grabavoy's position all that well, but I'd trade Buete for him in a heartbeat.
     
  5. feuerfex

    feuerfex Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Uh, ratdog. I think fanaddict stole your password.
     
  6. murtaugh29

    murtaugh29 New Member

    Oct 4, 2004
    roja LOCURA
    I think the ship has sailed on Grabavoy. We effed up not picking him when we had the chance, three different times. No one would take Buete for Ned.

    Ralph had a bad go of it most of last season. but he still scored goals. And if anyone thinks he was a flash in the pan his rookie year look again at the goals he scored both this year and last. Those aren't luck or fortune. You have to be pretty damned good to pull that stuff off.
     
  7. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just because it is an intelligent post and I agree with it doesn't mean I'm posting under his name. Other people can also have correct and intelligent views.
     
  8. feuerfex

    feuerfex Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Yeah, John, whatever.

    Maybe ratdog is just one of your socks.
     
  9. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I can't believe you just said that!

    OK, I don't know you, but people seem to be picking on you. I decided to jump in, but no offense. I just thought it was funny that you were trying to say "Other people can have the same correct and intelligent views as I do" but when taken out of context your quote is quite different.
     
  10. xkimo_fire

    xkimo_fire New Member

    Jul 9, 2004
    Iowa
    If LD goes to Germany... There might be considerable trade value to San Jose.
     
  11. NotAbbott

    NotAbbott Member

    Oct 11, 1999
    My Own Little World
    c) triple-teamed routinely because Razov was either playing hurt or out, Dipsy is only effective when we're up a man or playing A-league teams and Jaqua was suffering from induced schizophrenia while our midfield was having to play too defensively to contribute.

    But, no, you're right, it must be because he's a bad player.

    I swear to God, I'm going to pull a muscle from rolling my eyes so much.

    Later,
    COZ
     
  12. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Look, we sucked last season because we could not score goals to save our asses. Part of that was due to the fact that Razov was never healthy and ultimately sat out most of the season, part was due to the fact that our remaining forwards played poorly and part of that was due to a lack of organization in our midfield. How many games last year did we watch our midfielders struggle to complete a forward pass? How many times did Ralph try to dribble through 8 guys because he had no attacking support? How many times did Justin Mapp settle for a bad shot because our offense was too disorganized to give him a better option? How many times did we see Jimmy or CJ or Whitfiled holding the ball and kicking it around amongst each other because they did not see anything developing in our midfield? Other teams learned last year that all they had to do was pressure the Fire in the midfield because more often than not, we'd turn it over as soon as tried to move forward.

    The midfield got a bit better once Jesse came back but he was never in 100% shape and he'd sat out most of season so he could not be the factor he was for us on 2003. With Marsch in top shape, our midfield is decent. Not great, mind you, but decent. Without Marsch, our midfield is hopeless. So he is less replaceable than Razov, which was the point of my last post.

    But let's say we do trade Jesse. What does that mean for our midfield? Where does the organization come from? Obviously, we're not going to replace Nowak. Teams in Europe can't find true number tens out there, so what makes anyone think the Fire can find one and for a blue-light special price on top of it? Still, even though we'll never find a true #10 midfield general, we need someone to provide at least some coherence to our midfield since Dave has failed to come up with a scheme that lets us do without one.

    That leaves us to consider our candidates for midfield leader. Sadly, Armas turned out to be a bust as organizer and Pause is basically our Armas backup. Capano works hard, has skill and provided some offensive spark as a sub but I did not see much last year that screamed to me that is the guy around whom we build an offense. Williams either needed to stop smoking pot or start smoking more of it because he was extremely inconsistent as an offensive spark. Mapp or Jaqua as a midfield organizer? Ha ha ha ha ha. I'll be nice and simply not mention the other possiblilties as they'd be laughable for the role.

    So what do we do? I don't know. Right now, I guess we keep Jesse and pray he stays healthy in 05 and has another career year like he did in 03. Or, we throw Capano into the deep end and pray he swims. If anyone has better (and realistic) ideas, you're welcome to post them here.
     
  13. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which would be covered under "a)". But don't let that stop you from a corking off a needlessly redundant rant.

    Now if Dave can fix our midfield, sign Herron and then work with Damani on his poor decision-making skills so he can find the open man if he's being triple teamed...

    *edited to note that my longer post right before this one was written before I saw Coz's little rant so yes, I fully recognized part of why Damani was ineffective last year.
     
  14. fatboy15

    fatboy15 New Member

    Mar 31, 2000
    LaPorte, IN, USA
    man, where's the love for Armas? ratdog isn't the only one who's said this, i'm just using this as an example.

    yea, our team played better with marsch, but i would much rather have no marsch then no armas

    if you had to choose between Chris and Jesse, i don't see how you coudn't go with our captain.
     
  15. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I think the expansion draft goes like this: where can Capano best learn to be the player he needs to be? In from of Armas and Marsch? Or in place of one? That will dictate those three midfielders. I think Capano needs the veteran leadership behind him, and Pause isn't ready to replace either Armas or Marsch.
     
  16. skinut

    skinut Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2000
    Castle Pines, CO (or often elsewhere on earth)
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very well stated.
     
  17. dabes2

    dabes2 Member

    Jun 1, 2003
    Chicago
    PW has said that Fire expect to use their allocation to bring in a playmaking midfielder. If that is really going to happen, doesn't that change this analysis? Because, I don't think it serves Capano well to be 3rd on the depth chart.
     
  18. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think Capano is a d-mid and we don't need another d-mid as it is, so if we're going to work Craig into our midfield as the guy who runs our offense, we'll have to find a formation that lets him play alongside Jesse with Chris filling his usual role as our pesky destroyer. Jesse would then play on the right or as our second d-mid (much like Logan played as a second d-mid this past year) depending on game circumstances.
     
  19. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    We're not talking about no one, we're talking about Steve Sampson here. Who on our team would suit a 3-6-1 because I don't think Sampson is very high on Ned.
     
  20. creative_destruction

    Nov 28, 2003
    Chicago
    That's assuming Williams is still around next year.
     
  21. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chris is a great player and he's deservedly been the guy the Fire was built around for its entire existence. It is also true that last year highlighted the fact that Chris has some limitations as a player and that the Fire suffers once he truies to exceed these limitations over the course of a season. In his role as a d-mid disrupting opponents' attacks and intercepting passes, he's one of if not the best in MLS. As the guy who organizes the entire midfield including the offense, however... Let's just say I'd rather see Jesse or Capano in that role if we must have a midfield general.
     
  22. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No that's how I meant it, if you agree with me you are correct and intelligent.
     
  23. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I know that's how you meant it. That's why I was making fun of you.
     
  24. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I was suggesting Capano play creative midfielder, or top of a diamond midfield, in FRONT of Armas and Marsch. I misspelled front and I'm not sure everyone understood what I was trying to say. Capano certainly isn't a defensive midfielder, and his isn't a defender. He also isn't a winger, but maybe he could be. He's not a forward. He's an attacking midfielder with creativity.

    Maybe there's only room for him in a 3-5-2.
     
  25. dabes2

    dabes2 Member

    Jun 1, 2003
    Chicago
    I still expect Capano to stay and either Marsch or Armas to leave. I can see how we could squeeze everyone in, but it seems like we should be transferring some salary investment from the midfield to the defense.
     

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