Razov trade rumor

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by Fanaddict, Nov 13, 2004.

  1. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. murtaugh29

    murtaugh29 New Member

    Oct 4, 2004
    roja LOCURA
    There's some rumor that this trade might involve Jesse Marsch. I hope to christ that is wrong.

    Jesse. Must. Not. Be. Traded.

    Unless Metro is signing and trading us Fernando Redondo (and maybe not even then) we can't lose Jesse.
     
  3. dabes2

    dabes2 Member

    Jun 1, 2003
    Chicago
    I think we can afford to lose Razov and Marsch if everything else goes right.
     
  4. murtaugh29

    murtaugh29 New Member

    Oct 4, 2004
    roja LOCURA
    Razov, yes - i do think we can afford to trade him. This past season should serve notice Jesse is a lot more valuable than people generally previously thought.

    Jesse equals Chicago Fire almost as much as Nowak, Klopas, or Kubik.

    I think it would be a very large mistake to not allow him to complete his career here.
     
  5. brianzappa

    brianzappa Member

    Oct 21, 2003
    In a big country
    If ******** like this keeps up, there's going to be nothing left to hate the fire for. :mad:
     
  6. JeffGMc

    JeffGMc Member

    Oct 14, 2000
    New York City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    That's a silly thing to say. Everyone will still hate the Revs after they get rid of Franchino. And everyone knows the Metrostars suck, even though they got rid of Petke, Jolley and Lothar.
     
  7. fatboy15

    fatboy15 New Member

    Mar 31, 2000
    LaPorte, IN, USA


    uhhhhh.....what? you woulda traded Nowak in 02?
     
  8. Greddy

    Greddy Member

    Jun 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's cuz they'd still have Jay Heaps of SHlT.
     
  9. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Who do we get in return, Magee, Clark, Lisi, who goddamit?
     
  10. Greddy

    Greddy Member

    Jun 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Completely agree. If Jesse leaves, we repeat the 2004 season in 2005. It's as simple as that.


    BOB knows exactly what he's getting in these players, and he knows each of them better than Dave does. He knows what the real engine of our team is, and he wants to take that engine to New Jersey. Hopefully, someone within the organization will realize that before it is too late.
     
  11. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jesse has to retire in Fire red. Razov...I like the guy, but he's one I can see being delt. Armas, I'd like to see him retire in Fire red as well, but I don't think he will.
     
  12. budalabutt

    budalabutt Red Card

    Nov 4, 2004
    Chi-town

    Well Jesse is etting up there too. He is 32 and its time to clean shop on this team, really clean shop. While we are at it Armas can be put into that list too as long as we get solid young talent.
     
  13. murtaugh29

    murtaugh29 New Member

    Oct 4, 2004
    roja LOCURA
    Jesse just turned 31 on last Monday.

    And by that reasoning, we have more cause to get rid of Armas. I just don't believe Marsch leaving would correct anything that was a problem last year, and would in fact make some of the biggest issues worse.

    Jesse is one of the few players who has always, every year - despite the position in the standings or however lost the cause is in an individual game - plays his heart out and with passion for his club and his job. With so few players this past season demonstrating that, losing Jesse and his leadership would be a crushing blow to the continuity and character of the club. I know maybe people will disagree but Jesse, not Armas, is the soul of this club now that Nowak is gone.
     
  14. murtaugh29

    murtaugh29 New Member

    Oct 4, 2004
    roja LOCURA
    We may have another suitor for Razov:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/252348p-216075c.html
    Hey, if that's the case, let the bidding begin. And, additionally, I hear Magee may be involved in the trade talks. not good enough, but it's a start.
     
  15. churchill2000

    churchill2000 3x MLS Cup Champions

    Jul 12, 2004
    Monde Virtuel
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    How about Brenes? He is certainly a player that will shape into a talent, especially in the Fire environment.
     
  16. creative_destruction

    Nov 28, 2003
    Chicago
    And that's exactly why Dave probably wants to get rid of him. Dave wants the Fire to be HIS team, the one HE built and that requires getting rid of everyone that came around before his tenure. Kind of like the purging done after a coup d'etat.
     
  17. JeffGMc

    JeffGMc Member

    Oct 14, 2000
    New York City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Name the solid young talent.

    [crickets chirp]

    Exactly.
     
  18. Hattrix

    Hattrix Member

    Sep 1, 2002
    Chicago
    There's an awful lot of Jesse love going on around here. And the reason why is that he seemed to work awfully hard in a season when a lot of guys didn't look as eager. But for people to want to let Ante go before Jesse is ridiculous. If each player is 100%, Ante is a much better player to have on the roster.

    The Fire currently have plenty of d-mids: Pause, Armas, Capano, Marsch, Buete... And five strikers: Ante, Herron, Ralph, Nate, Dipsy. Imagine what a front line of Herron and Razov could do. Frankly, Ralph's production in the second half of the '04 season was awful. He should have to work harder to keep his starting job, and a healthy Razov would do this. Futhermore, if Herron, Ralph, and Razov were all on the roster, we wouldn't have that sinking feeling that most MLS sides have to suffer when an offensive sub is made.

    At this point, Marsch should not be starting for the Fire. Capano is a better passer and makes better runs off the ball. If the Fire can get a reliable right wing--since Dave doesn't seem to think the money for Boucicaut was well spent--then let Marsch go. But don't trade for a wing at the expense of the best attacker the Fire has ever had. Please.

    Look, I agree that Marsch worked hard in '04, but it is the only year we missed the playoffs, so that evidence is a little suspicious.
     
  19. JMMUSA8

    JMMUSA8 New Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Webster
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see Razov as expendable to the Fire organization. The scoring torch has been passed from Razov to Ralph, who is a lot younger, faster, better, and cheaper. Fire needs defenders, right? I say to Peter Wilt, why not get another team in this deal, say Colorado. I've posted this a few places. NY needs that forward who is a big name and is clutch, aka Razov. Chicago needs defenders (in my mind) so they could pick one up from Colorado. With Spencer gone, they could use another forward, say a Sergio Galvan Ray or Cornell Glenn. Good deal I think.
     
  20. murtaugh29

    murtaugh29 New Member

    Oct 4, 2004
    roja LOCURA
    That's ****************** if the case. Fire Denis Hamlett, fire Daryl Shore. Might as well fire PW then too.

    Dave signs off on trading Jesse, and/or fires both the assistants, then the faith I've put in him is lost. I think he is the right choice to be our coach now (despite the past season) but decisions like that could change my opinion quickly. You can't tear the soul out of a club because you didn't sign him. The Nowak move was forced on us by salary restrictions and other players' oppressive contracts. Kubik likewise, and Klopas retired. It'd be offensive to Jesse and Chicago fans to have his legacy be a "Scott Buete" metro castoff.
     
  21. Saeyddthe

    Saeyddthe Member

    Sep 5, 2003
    St. Looney ^the CB&J
    If we trade Razov, it'd better be for Ricardo Clark and a forward, with Herron being re-signed, or not at all, IMNSHO...
     
  22. murtaugh29

    murtaugh29 New Member

    Oct 4, 2004
    roja LOCURA
    There's too much focus on stats in that analysis. jesse brings more intangibles and leadership to the table than Ante.

    I have a photo on my computer, for example, of Jesse directing the midfield in 2001, clearly very engrossed in the game. The entire side of his face however, is covered in blood. He's bleeding profusely. I rememebr not long after this he was taken off the field and treated (and yes, this is a photo of just one particular incident) that's the kind of spirit and drive that he exhibits and that is more valuable to us now than Ante, even though he has been the best goalscorer in our history. In all likelihood, Marsch probably doesn't make much less than Ante. But he has benefits in his presence Ante doesn't have. Like Coz I do believe in this last season goalscoring wasn't the issue as much as WHICH goals were scored and which were given up. Herron and Ralph and whoever else sticks can do the job I think. having the passion and leadership someone like Marsch brings to the table may be the difference in scoring the important goals at the right time. Plus, Razov's salary space would be a great help in encouraging players to stay with us longer term and shoring our defense up.

    I'm sure we could keep Razov and Jesse but that would lead, I fear to another 2002 situation where we are forced to make much more painful cuts due to salary because we didn't make the simpler ones sooner.
     
  23. iwishiweremingus2

    iwishiweremingus2 New Member

    Jun 1, 2004
    Milwaukee
    not totally related but could you post that picture? jesse marsch and paul ince, seperated at birth.
     
  24. creative_destruction

    Nov 28, 2003
    Chicago
    I think some stats may help. IIRC, last year the Fire did far better when Jesse was in the game and I think they won every game in which he scored. Though not statistical, both last year and this year there seemed to be a qualitative change in the team with Jesse in the game.
     
  25. NotAbbott

    NotAbbott Member

    Oct 11, 1999
    My Own Little World
    I'm going to play against type and say that we could survive losing Jesse Marsch, but only under the condition that Capano takes his spot in the lineup. Then we've got Pause backing up Armas and Beute backing up Capano, and that might be enough to get the job done. Maybe.

    However, trading him to Metro is handing them the Eastern Conference next year. While we would survive the loss, they would gain too much in return. If he's gotta go, send him to Colorado or something, where he can't hurt us so much.

    I say this all the time, and nobody listens, but put aside the "he plays with heart" argument for a second. That's used too often as a backhanded insult to a player's talent. Jesse does some real tangible things that never, ever show up in any stat sheet. He covers for defenders when they attack, and if they make it back to their spot, he has had absolutely nothing to do with the actual play on either end, but still made it happen. He's also probably one of our best guys at bringing the double-team, which often forces mistakes from opponents that other guys then clean up. And believe me, applying early pressure in the midfield was probably our single biggest weakness all of last year, that year that we were missing Jesse throughout.

    So, to sum up, we'd definitely miss him, but I believe in Craig Capano, so we could get through it. Metro, however, would benefit too greatly to make this a good idea.

    I'm all for Razov to Chivas. Regarding Metro, I'm kinda surprised that he'd agree to play 15 games on artificial turf.

    Later,
    COZ
     

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