I tried to make score based on: Passes: 0.05 pts Shot on target: 2 pts Shot off target: 1 pts Goal: 5 pts Key Pass: 2 pts Assist: 5 pts Duels won: 1 pts Duels lost: -1 pts (duels are tackles, dribbles, fouls, aerial, and be dispossessed) Source: 1966-2010: search optawc1st 2014: https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/equipo.html?competition=4&season=2013 2018: https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/equipo.html?competition=4&season=2017
Little better than the other graph. Pelé did have more shots tho. Footstats numbers ^^ There also shots from the below the middle of the pitch that aren't in the graph. Voetbal International magazine also shows more shots to Pelé too (35, 14 on target) similar numbers to Footstats. I would say it should be weighted tho. Assists and Goals in the group stages should value about 2.5, in the KO rounds (apart of the final) 5 and in the final 7.5. You can't compare stats from the group stages (playing against Korea etc) with the stats from a KO round or especially a WC final. You can make it per 90 or per match too like you did in the other thread.
Interesting to see any attempt like this, so kudos on doing all the calculations and producing the chart! I think I'd take off Shots Off Target. If anything I'd be tempted to score them minus 1 (like duels lost) rather than 1, but probably I'd just leave them off. I suppose the problem is we can't start making qualitative judgements because a) too much work to check all the footage, and b) it then isn't a pure statistical calculation and value judgements have to happen, even if most might agree on certain shots being better than others (great save by the goalkeeper or easy save for example), certain decisions being better than others etc etc. I did wonder about incorporating chances created as one addition that would be good, but maybe key passes are a good alternative (I should read about them again and understand fully what they are!).
Funny then that the OPTA Index itself (& Castrol) had in fact not Maradona 1986 as the best of all time, even less so by miles above the rest. And that against, on average per ELO, not super strong opposition.
I think the stats will always be interesting and useful when summarised/collected, but in the end each individual will have a better idea of what they really think by watching the performances. Then of course it becomes subjective to rank players, but in any stats system there can also be intentional or unintentional bias in terms of what to value, what weights to give to each action, how sophisticated the system is and suchlike. In terms of other possible improvements to the one of the OP, I guess interceptions (if not covered by duels) could be one to add, to reflect a bit more the defensive side. Not sure about clearances though, as no separate goal-line clearances will be listed I guess and to give a possible scenario of 2 players getting to a ball before an attacker and one clearing the ball out of play or randomly into midfield, while the other passes it to an attacking colleague, or into midfield accurately, we wouldn't want to reward the former more than the latter would we (maybe the latter would count as a pass and a clearance but I'm doubting it)? Especially impressive pieces of play involving ball control or progressive passes for example can't really be rewarded I suppose. Although maybe they get reflected in a lot of instances if they lead to a successful dribble (positive for duels won) or a successful pass, or key pass even.
So in summary my initial ideas would be introduce chances created (2 points if keeping key passes too?) and interceptions (or 'recoveries' maybe) for 1 point, as well as taking out shots off target. I think I'd value a key pass over a shot on target, but if chances created could be added too maybe no need to change the balance as a key pass that created a chance would then be worth 4 (not sure if it led to an assist that would be 9, or just 5 for the assist and nothing else). Maybe pass accuracy could be reflected by multiplying number of passes by it, which would reduce slightly the rewards for passes in themselves - maybe passes in opposition half should come into it too as defenders often make quite a lot of 'easy passes' (and if we reward them more for interceptions maybe that balances things off and values their primary job a bit more, while the pass accuracy factor would still reward accurate play).
PDG1978 I always thought chances created and key passes are the same, I will try to do what you said I made two changes, now only count correct passes (Pass*Pass%)/100 and duels pts favor the most active players, making duel won 1pts and duel lost -0.5 pts, for example if a player does in one match before: 1 duel won and 1 duel lost = 0 pts 10 duel won and 10 duel lost = 0 pts now: 1 duel won and 1 duel lost: = 0.5 pts 10 duel won and 10 duel lost = 5 pts Per 90 minutes, removing players with less than 270 minutes
Info of some games I could get example of the source https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/partido.html?competition=4&season=27&match=312764 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas...4&season=27&team=632&player=8838&match=312764
Para los mundiales pre 2010 hay muy pocos partidos con información Solo tienes que ir navegando y haciendo click por ahi 2010 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/equipo.html?competition=4&season=2009 2014 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/equipo.html?competition=4&season=2013 Algunos partidos disponibles Holanda vs España 2010 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/partido.html?competition=4&season=2009&match=318304 Argentina vs Alemania 2014 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/partido.html?competition=4&season=2013&match=731830 Inglaterra vs Francia 1982 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/partido.html?competition=4&season=27&match=312759 Italia vs Brasil 1982 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/partido.html?competition=4&season=27&match=312798 Alemania vs Francia 1982 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/partido.html?competition=4&season=27&match=312800 Holanda vs Alemania 1974 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/partido.html?competition=4&season=35&match=312879 Brasil vs Italia 1970 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/partido.html?competition=4&season=39&match=312911 Inglaterra vs Alemania 1966 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/partido.html?competition=4&season=43&match=312943 Brasil vs Francia 1998 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/partido.html?competition=4&season=16&match=312203 Argentina vs Inglaterra 1998 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/partido.html?competition=4&season=16&match=312195 Argentina vs Inglaterra 1986 https://www.ole.com.ar/estadisticas/futbol/partido.html?competition=4&season=23&match=312708
Ok, muchas gracias. Yo lo decía por enriquecer los ratings de los mundiales en los que he trabajado en este blog. Una joya esta aportación que haces.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/world-cup-comparisons/diego-maradona-1994/ I was watching this web and it seems Maradona 1994 has 28.8 passes "per game"?, but remember seeing that Maradona made 107 correct passes in 174 minutes, thats 55 passes per game, so what's is going on here? It seems that here they put the data divided by the number of games played by the team and not by the player. Argentina played 4 games in this WC so is 107 passes divided by 4 which gives 26.8 passes, thats the same for every player. I want to know the total amount of passes, dribbles, goals, etc. of each player in all their matches, so I have to multiply the numbers shown on this website by the number of games played by the team, that's for each World Cup and then add everything It will take me some time, for now I have the players from Argentina. It is not exact, because I know that Maradona has 105 dribbles while Messi has 107, but I think it is close enough, it is a pity not to have the raw data
So I tried to make a score per 90 minutes played: Passes: 0.1 pts Progressive passes: 0.25 pts Take-ons: 3 pts Progressive dribbles: 1 pts Non-shot exp goals: 20 pts Fouls drawn: 1 pts Fouls committed: -1 pts Headers: 1 pts Blocks: 10 pts Clearances: 0.5 pts Interceptions: 2 pts Tackles: 2 pts Goals: 10 pts Expected goals: 10 pts Crosses: 0.5 pts Touches in box: 0.5 pts But I realize that this is underestimating the forwards a lot, even Batistuta is pretty low, so I create a new "metric" called effectiveness. Basically is (Non-shot exp goals*3+Goals+Expected goals)/(Passes+Touches in box+Fouls committed)*100. At least this changes the score a bit And now the major problem, who is better, should give those players who played the most minutes a scoring advantage, so I make an average between the "total points" and the "points per 90 minutes", making (total points/minutes^(1/2))
The same score but compressed I will try to add more players, and see if I can use the Elo ratings to calculate the average difficulty of opponents
Great work partner, I think that with your last corrections you have come to obtain much fairer and more balanced grades. Are they with coefficients similar to those of whoscored and sofascore?
well I dont think this is similar to what whoscored or sofascore do, mainly because they do the score per game and not per 90 minutes, so if a player plays a few minutes per game he will have very low points, also I don't know if they use something like expected goals or progressive dribbles-passes
This is another version in which the score "per 90 minutes" has more preponderance, making (total points/minutes^(1/1,5))
Now to calculate the difficulty of the match I chose to use the opponent's Elo rating level, and then adjust if the match was in the first stage, second, round of 16, etc. https://www.eloratings.net/ Example: Maradona 1982 average: 2040 Belgium: 1952 Hungary: 1802 El Salvador: 1558 Second stage: Italy: 1911*(1.2)= 2293 Brazil: 2162*(1.2)= 2594 (1952+1802+1558+2293+2594)/5= 2040 For the 1966-1970 WC: First stage: x1 Quarter-finals: x1.1 Semi-finals: x1.3 Final: x1.5 Third place: x1.1 For the 1974-1978 WC: First stage: x1 Second stage: x1.2 Final: x1.5 Third place: x1.1 For the 1982 WC: First stage: x1 Second stage: x1.2 Semi-finals: x1.3 Final: x1.5 Third place: x1.1 For the 1986-2018 WC: First stage: x1 Round of 16: x1.1 Quarter-finals: x1.2 Semi-finals: x1.3 Final: x1.5 Third place: x1.1 Points*AvgElo/2000
More players added, and some changes Passes: 0.125 pts Progressive passes: 0.5 pts Take-ons: 3 pts Progressive dribbles: 1 pts Non-shot exp goals: 50 pts Fouls drawn: 1 pts Fouls committed: -1 pts Headers: 1 pts Blocks: 5 pts Clearances: 0.25 pts Interceptions: 1 pts Tackles: 2 pts Goals: 10 pts Expected goals: 10 pts Crosses: 1 pts Touches in box: 0.5 pts Effectiveness: x2 All the points are added, and then divided by the number of minutes^(1/1.5), this is to give players with the most minutes played an advantage.
More players, effectiveness value x3, the score divided into pass, dribble, defense and attack The same score of some players for single world cup