Rapids' History of Allocations and Discoveries

Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by greenie, Jan 9, 2003.

  1. greenie

    greenie New Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    This is a work in progress.
    If anyone has anything to add, please let me know and I will update as necessary!



    Players acquired via the use of a Discovery Selection

    Gilles Grimandi (2003)
    Raul Palacios (2002)
    Rick Titus (2002)
    Daniel Amokachi (2002)
    John Spencer (2001)
    Neathan Gibson (2001)
    Matt Okoh (2000)
    Jason Bent (1998)
    Wolde Harris (1997)
    Chris Henderson (1996)

    notes:
    - Christopher Dawes was a 2001 discovery selection in by the MetroStars on the contingency that the Rapids would then trade a 2002 2nd round draft pick to acquire him
    - Junior Agogo was a 2000 discovery selection by the Chicago Fire, acquired by trading a 2001 3rd round draft pick




    Players acquired via the use of Senior/International Allocation

    Mark Chung
    - 2002, acquired from MetroStars in exchange for allocation

    Pablo Mastroeni
    - 2002, acquired as #1 pick in dispersal draft by using allocation

    Henry Zambrano
    - 2000, acquired from MetroStars in exchange for allocation

    Jorge Dely Valdes
    - 1999, direct allocation

    Anders Limpar
    - 1999, direct allocation

    Waldir Saenz
    - 1998, direct allocation

    Marquinho
    - 1998, direct allocation

    Jorge "Tote" Castaneda
    - 1997, direct allocation

    Marcus Hahnemann
    - 1997, direct allocation

    David Patino
    - 1997, direct allocation

    Chris Woods
    - 1996, inaugural allocation

    Shaun Bartlett
    - 1996, inaugural allocation

    Marcelo Balboa
    - 1996, inaugural allocation

    Dominic Kinnear
    - 1996, inaugural allocation

    Roy Wegerle
    - 1996, inaugural allocation


    notes:
    - Carlos Valderrama was an inaugural allocation by the Tampa Bay Mutiny, who (after going to Miami and back again) was traded to the Rapids (with Scott Garlick and Ritchie Kotschau) in 2001 in exchange for Adin Brown, Scott Vermillion and a 2002 1st round draft pick.
    - Adrian Paz was an inaugural allocation by the Columbus Crew, whom the Rapids acquired in 1997 by trading the #1 overall 1997 supplemental draft pick.



    Major Allocation Breakdown
    This breakdown is based on press releases from the Rapids and MLS. It is also based on the rules for granting allocations to clubs, which was first made public by MLS in 1998 (with subsequent modifications over the years).

    For 1997 I have made vague assumptions as to why the Rapids were given 3 allocations. To date I have not found any factual information that will confirm why these allocations were assigned, and the missing-playoffs rule (aka "You Suck" allocation) had not been established until 1997. So unless specific information becomes available, we can only guess as to the workings of MLS in 1997.

    Going strictly by the numbers and MLS rules from 1998 onwards, the picture doesn't get any clearer. How did the Rapids wind up using 2 allocations in 1998 when it appeared that they only had 1 coming to them? Was MLS still awarding every team at least 1 allocation every year? Or were the Rapids indeed granted favor, later rescinded by the "Screw the Rapids" move by MLS in 2001, in which we were granted one measly allocation for losing 3 top starters?


    1996: +5 allocations for inauguration
    1996: -5 allocations for Wegerle, Kinnear, Balboa, Barlett, Woods.

    1997: +1 allocation for missing 1996 playoffs (logical assumption)
    1997: +1 allocation to get a Mexican player (ticket sales assumption)
    1997: +1 allocation for losing Woods (humorous assumption)
    1997: -1 allocation for Patino
    1997: -1 allocation for Hahnemann
    1997: -1 allocation for Castaneda

    1998: +1 allocation to replace Patino
    1998: -1 allocation for Marquinho
    1998: -1 allocation for Waldir

    1999: +1 allocation to replace Paz
    1999: -1 allocation for Limpar
    1999: -1 allocation for Dely Valdes
    1999: +1 allocation to replace Hahnemann

    2000: +1 allocation from Wizards for Vermes, McKeon, draft pick
    2000: -1 allocation to MetroStars for Zambrano

    2001: +1 allocation to replace Limpar, Dely Valdes, DiGiamarino

    2002: +1 allocation for missing 2001 playoffs
    2002: -1 allocation for Mastroeni in dispersal draft
    2002: -1 allocation to MetroStars for Chung

    2003: +1 allocation to replace Valderrama.
     
  2. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These are the players that were probably worth the pick IMHO. Really only Palacios and Gibson were a waste of a pick. Okoh is iffy, but probably didn't hurt us in the long run. The Rapids have done well in this department (Any list with Grimandi, Spencer, and Henderson on it is great).

    One addition, Daniel Amokachi. Obviously I wouldn't put him in the good list...

    Here the Rapids have not done as well. To be fair, I only started to follow the team in '98, so my opinion of the early allocations is only based on comments by long-time fans and their stats. The above have been completely worth their allocation slot, and two are still with the team. When Hahnemann left we got an allocation spot; so his pick really didn't cost the team anything in the long run. Limpar and JDV combined for one, so we were down one allocation there. Balboa, well, what's there to say that hasn't been said about what he brought to the organization. Of course, the ultimate in bad moves, Zambrano, wasn't really the Rapids fault, MLS foisted him on us, so not all blame can lie with the organization.
     
  3. Soccerholic

    Soccerholic New Member

    Mar 6, 2001
    Mile High
    Very impressive research, Greenie. It's nice to have this whole list in front of us. The only thing that I don't follow is the -1 allocation in 1998 for Waldir. This would mean that we were net -1 after 1998 and now have no allocations available. This doesn't make sense. Can you clarify?
     
  4. greenie

    greenie New Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    Wish I could clarify this one. This is one of those foggy bits.

    It was reported in a press release from 1998 that we received an allocation because David Patino's contract was not purchased by MLS, and thus he returned to Mexico. That's +1.

    However, Castaneda was simply released by the team, and in these cases MLS generally has not awarded a team an allocation pick to replace the player.

    Thus the only thing I can assume at this point is that in 1998, the league was still granting each team in MLS at least one allocation per year for no other reason other than the league was still in its infancy. To date, I haven't been able to locate any words from MLS or the Rapids to explain this.

    Similarly, and I have not yet found any evidence to suggest that the Rapids were awarded an allocation in 1999 to replace either Marquinho or Waldir.

    Marquinho left mid-season in 1998 under mysterious circumstances; little factual information was presented on his departure, other than the fact that it was "mutual" (rumors were that Marquinho's wife had a torrid hatred of Denver, and once Mooch and Marquinho stopped getting along they simply returned to South america). So perhaps the Rapids were granted an allocation as a result, but I haven't found that mentioned anywhere.

    Waldir was simply released, and thus no replacement allocation awarded.

    Thus heading into 1999 we were in the same boat of factually having only one allocation in hand, yet were somehow able to use two allocations.

    Sadly at this point, the only years we're 100% sure on are 2001 forward. I was able to track down press releases from early 2001 that we initially had no allocations, as well as press releases that confirmed we had only one following the KC trade, and release confirming we had none following the Metros trade.
     
  5. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    i believe at some point, mls limited the number of allocations a team could have to 3

    however, i'm not 100% on that, i just believe that has happened

    now when that was set in stone (if it was), i'm assuming it meant that some players had to have their allocation status taken away (see tab ramos not earning an allocation for the metros right now)




    but great stuff, greenie!!
     
  6. swedcrip34

    swedcrip34 New Member

    Mar 17, 2004
    I'm currently working on the Rapids' transaction history.

    would suggest 1996 (7/9/1996) Sean Henderson was likely a discovery
     
  7. GoRapids

    GoRapids Member

    Sep 1, 1999
    Boulder CO
    Dude ... nice dig up ... I think this should be a sticky
     
  8. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

    Feb 4, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, a thread that was inactive for a year and 10 months approximatly, that is crazy.

    This would be helpful to stickify.
     
  9. TrooperBari

    TrooperBari Member

    Apr 3, 2001
    Jakarta
    Dooley noted.
     
  10. greenie

    greenie New Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    Not according to the Rapids' 1997 or 1998 media guides which don't list him with the other discovery selections.
     
  11. swedcrip34

    swedcrip34 New Member

    Mar 17, 2004
    Any idea how they got him then? I think he came over from his last club being in Germany. I tend to list all mystery player acquisitions as "discoveries" though they don't always show up anywhere labeled as such. All I found was something saying "signed July 9". He wasn't an allocation. Don't think he was a developmental player (Grafer was for at least part of 96). Do you know if Grafer stayed on the roster all year in 96 even after going down to play in Long Island?
     
  12. Malaga CF fan

    Malaga CF fan Member

    Apr 19, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great stuff Greenie, Good to have here as a sticky now that the season has ended.
     
  13. prk166

    prk166 BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 8, 2000
    Med City
    How did the Rapids aquire Lebouf?
     
  14. swedcrip34

    swedcrip34 New Member

    Mar 17, 2004
    who's that?

    To clarify above about Sean Henderson - MLS used to have more limited "discovery" periods, running preseason/early season. So a signing later wouldn't technically be a "discovery", but some guys coming into the league not from USL like Sean Henderson pose a problem for me to classify. Maybe all other teams passed on using allocations. Maybe there was a "brother" rule :)
     
  15. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

    Feb 4, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLSnet.com recently had the 2005 players rules/regs posted including a list of the allocation order for 2005 (I can't find the link). The Rapids were not listed as a team with an allocation in 2005. Maybe next year.
     
  16. swedcrip34

    swedcrip34 New Member

    Mar 17, 2004
  17. Malaga CF fan

    Malaga CF fan Member

    Apr 19, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only other team that seems to have no allocation mojo is KC. I don't get how Spencer retiring wasn't an allocation? He was the face and personality of the Rapids and an SI. What happened? Who'd we get to replace him (Wolde??)

    Although I think it would make life easier for all MLS fans if it didn't require a JD to sift through and decifer all the rules and constant changes (including the fine print that seems to heavily favor LA, DC, and other BIG market clubs). :confused:
     
  18. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

    Feb 4, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the latest Soccer America MLS insider it points out that the Rapids have tried to get a Spencer allocation but the league denied them. I'm sure LA got a Hernandez allocation but we can't get a Spencer allocation!?!?! What shite!
     
  19. GoRapids

    GoRapids Member

    Sep 1, 1999
    Boulder CO
    Completely. But think in MLS terms

    1. gotta keep LA plugging along - cuz LA is SO important.
    2. Gotta get Chivas sucessful
    3. Gotta get early sucess in FSL - help get that stadium deal done.
    4. MUST GET DALLAS A GOOD TEAM for their stadium.
    5. SJ is lame duck.
    6. We'll help Colorado out in 2006 like we did for Dallas - but for now someone needs to lose. Thanks for understanding Stan. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

    Feb 4, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sounds like we just got a half allocation for Chunger. I don't know where we'll end up in the League's allocation "list of truth", but hopefully we won't be on the bottom. Maybe we can make a play for Colorado native Conor Casey.
     
  21. swedcrip34

    swedcrip34 New Member

    Mar 17, 2004
    the one traded for is number 9 on this list
    http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/about/league.jsp?section=regulations&content=allocations

    but among allocations that are still out there (dangerous assumption is that these are the ones without names next to them)
    5. Chicago Fire DaMarcus Beasley replacement allocation (split) --
    6. Chicago Fire Damani Ralph replacement allocation (major) --
    8. S.J. Earthquakes Portion of Etcheverry retirement allocation acquired from FC Dallas, originally held by D.C. United (split) --
    9. S.J. Earthquakes Portion of Landon Donovan replacement allocation (split) --
    10. Columbus Crew Portion of Brian McBride replacement allocation (split) --
    13. N.E. Revolution Daniel Hernandez replacement allocation (minor) --
    14. Chivas USA Expansion allocation --
    17. Los Angeles Galaxy Expansion allocation acquired from Real Salt Lake --
    19. MetroStars Portion of Donovan replacement allocation acquired from SJ (split) --

    it's 4th out of the 9 left, it may never be high enough to get a USMNT player, but who knows
     
  22. fern72

    fern72 New Member

    Aug 8, 2005
    Downey, CA
    It could be worse, look at San Jose Earthquakes. They put a good team every year, and still they want to get rid of them. Being from LA, i know you guys are getting the short end of the stick. But, you must admit that chivas needs a lot of help. I dont know what that owner was thinking, that he could put anyone out there and be the best. Hello, just because you put mexican players out dosent mean your going to win. If he hasnt noticed, mexico has been losing to the USA on a consitiant basis. Sorry to get out of the topic, and i'm not being racist; i 'm mexican-american.
     
  23. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

    Feb 4, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is from the Clavijo Tinkering article in the Post. I didn't realize we had a full allocation from the league. So that seems like good news. If Pablo does infact go abroad we'll get another one.
     
  24. bilfish

    bilfish New Member

    Feb 23, 2004
    Golden, CO
    FYI -- looking a couple posts back, De la Torre mentioned that he was cut from Chivas because he was too expensive. They wanted cheap players.

    Glad that worked out for them. Welcome to MLS. Pricks. This is a real league.

    Cheers,

    BilFish
     
  25. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

    Feb 4, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just looked at the MLS allocation list. Looks like the Rapids are 4th in line for any kind of allocation player.

    1. Chicago Fire
    2. Chicago Fire
    3. Houston (Earthquakes)
    4. Rapids - split

    I say this because Corey Gibbs has been released by his club in Holland. Not sure if he'd want to return to the states, but I'd like to have him on the back line with Petke.

    Gibbs is recovering from a big injury, so this isn't a safe bet...but could be worth the gamble. Since FCD already got an allocation for Gibbs I don't think they still own his rights. I could be wrong on that one.
     

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