How many games has Richards played? How many with Zimmermann? Did we even know that was the top combo? Too much confusion. Are we a play out from the center backs team or not? I don't think any of these questions have clear answers from what we've seen over the last few years. And I absolutely consider that a problem. I think it's fair to debate the cause of the problem but I don't think it makes sense to pretend we don't have one.
the assumption that zimmerman is the clear #1 is yet another thing berhalter is selling that I am not buying....especially if you're gonna play out of the back.....if you wanna play long ball...he could be a decent option possibly..... But clear #1??!???!? nope. If you're playing out of the back - which I think should be the strategy - then zimmerman doesnt make my WC roster, most likely...he's not that good defensively....he's a minus in possession and build out. paralyzes the build out in my opinion....the Cbs are the reason for zero shots on goal vs Japan. playing out the back CB rankings - 1. Brooks (but lack of playing time hurts a lot at the moment - this ranking is based on being in form) 2. Ream 3. Richards (should be higher but really hasnt played that great for USMNT and isnt playing for his club) 4. McKenzie 5. Miazga 6. EPB (again, should be way higher, but hasnt shown anything for USMNT yet didnt play great in June) 7. CCV 8. Farrell 9. Zimmerman 10. Long Boot it up the field and play like its 94 Cb rankings idk.....but Long aint making it to WC even then, imo. Zimmerman...maaaybe
That's pretty harsh on Zimmerman. Dude has been really good for the USMNT and if he were the second best passer out of the pairing, i think we'd all feel really good about that. He is dominant in the air, a much better athlete than you're giving him credit for, a good leader, and a better 1 v 1 defender than most dudes as big as him. The issue is he is paired with people like Long who struggle to make simple passes. Zimmerman actually had a handful of pretty nice "line breaking passes" but because they amounted to little due to the support being non-existent to the guys who received the ball, people act like they didn't happen because it fits their narrative better. Even the Scuffed guys went out of their way to say you can't lump Long and Zimmerman together vs Japan and they are very pro many of the guys you mentioned. Look, I'm willing to go all in on Long hate with you. It's absurd he is even sniffing the roster. But I think you're being rather biased when you rate Zimm's passing below guys like CCV (who I like but he is about the least adventurous passer in the pool) while discounting the things he does well in the same paragraph. For me, the solution has always been rather simple. Zimm or Brooks (I guess Ream if Gregg just refuses Brooks) plays next to Richards or EPB/McKenzie (should be Miles Robinson). Obviously that's not gonna happen but it's a shame it hasn't been tried.
I have a somewhat different tack on our center back situation: Using a listing from another post: ( the order changes but I will just change the numbers) -5. Brooks (but lack of playing time hurts a lot at the moment - this ranking is based on being in form) -4. Ream -10. Richards -6. McKenzie -3. Miazga -6. EPB -20. CCV -18. Farrell -2. Zimmerman -50. Long That is we do not have any "good" center backs, most were trained in the MLS style. We do have a few that are not horrible but we have no center back with the foot skills to play the way our "Chimp in Charge" wants. Even the ones playing in decent leagues have not mastered, or even become decent at, the foot skills needed for "the System."
I don’t agree with that last bit. I watched Brooks and Richards a lot last year. Both struck me as pretty good passers. I can’t speak to the others. When I see CCV for Celtic he looks ok with the ball at his feet, but I know that is vs SPL competition.
my rankngs are for PLAYING OUT OF THE BACK..... I dont think Zimmerman is good at that...I think he actually is very poor at that vs a press...which, NEWSFLASH!!!....the USMNT is going to see at the WC. he is a pretty good passer WITH TIME and SPACE like is accustomed to having in MLS.... his defense on the 2nd japan goal was comically baad....he doesnt look very athletic to me....somewhat giraffe like...faint scent of omar ganzalez.....better than him.....but not confidence inspiriring.... is the team going to play out of the back vs a press? they should try. hoofing long ball will be quite silly given all of the decisions berhalter has made to get to this point.....(thats actually what I expect to finally see in Qatar....regressive tactics reminiscent of the 90s) Anywho if they wont play out of a press and just long ball it....then zimmerman would move up in my rankings.....but for example I dont think he does ANYTHING better than Miazga. not one thing. I prefer Matt.
To me Omar was the epitome of a bad defender. He flopped when touched like Alexi Lalas and he made stupid choices and he made those around him worse. Even a faint scent of either of those two is enough to make one think of all the bad defense ever seen in the US.
These are desperate times, if the US doesn't score against Saudi Arabia we will see calls for Zardes or Jozy...
I understand your rankings and I disagree with them. It also wasn't clear to me who you would bring in. I have seen your previous posts on this thread and am curious who your top 4-5 would be? For clarity, i like you as a poster as evidence by the fact that I like the majority of your posts but I think you need to do a deeper dive on Zimmerman. To begin, are you really giving him any culpability on that second goal? Cannon got skinned and he left his man at just the right time and gave the Japanese guy a really tough angle and he made a good play. I didn't see any giraffe qualities, he was trying to avoid getting a handball and did the move that all defenders are trained to do from about U13 up. McKenzie had a far worse failure to step up and left the guy a ton of goal to shoot on early in the second half but you still prefer him? Nothing against McKenzie, he has a ton of potential but his guy flubbed the shot while the second guy nailed his. I actually think the blame falls squarely on Gregg and you alluded to this. You can't play Zimmerman who is a mediocre passer with Long who is a bad passer and then play his "system." Even when Long was in form he was being paired with Brooks and Ream who can carry the passing load by themselves. With Zimmerman you have a guy who isn't totally useless at passing so if you pair him with a good (but not necessarily great a la Brooks or Ream) then on balance you're still good enough to support some type of possession in the back. Zimmerman and Richards would also be a nice upgrade defensively on a Brooks/Ream and Long pairing. I think McKenzie can fill that role as well but he has a troubling career to date with the USMNT. As to your point on Miazga, you and I were two of his biggest fans years ago and I still have a lot of faith in his abilities. That being said, Zimmerman has absolutely been better than him in MLS. I'd be surprised if he doesn't win defender of the year for the third time. I don't know what Miazga did to get banished from the national team because he was good more than bad to my recollection. Maybe it's the famous double standard for Euros vs MLS. I also remember all the talk being that he wouldn't be a good partner for Brooks but obviously that doesn't matter anymore. I'd definitely call him in. BUT, I would not call him in at the expense of Zimmerman.
I saw Omar's play in Italy. It was pretty horrible. Then he came home and it was worse. Of course the foolish US managers kept calling him up. He showed clearly that it is possible to be mediocre and still bring home paychecks. He fooled a lot of people in world soccer.
okay yeah...fair enough. good post I agree with almost everything you wrote. Its very hard to settle on 4-5 because I think form going into the tourney is important - dest, wes and ldlt, for example, aint playing...and it aint good for their USMNT showings - as evidenced by the Japan game. none of the CBs are really the complete package. richards should be good - but not playing and still 1 or 2 years away from where he will be....which is the best USMNT CB. Brooks isnt playing. Ream is a bit slow. Shouldve clarified - Miazga SINCE he transferred back to MLS...in that specific timeframe - he has been better than Zimm - even go check the nashville forum. Maybe the pressure of getting to the WC is getting to him IDk - but he simply hasnt been vetted outside of CONCACAF...and it could blow up in everyones faces. Mckenzie looks good. EPB SHOULD be good....but ggg has a way of making players look bad. he didnt do well last time out for USMNT...hopefully he can do something against saudi. right now - I pick - richards, mckenzie, miazga, Ream, brooks
Good post. I'll put my picks at the bottom but valid on form since we don't have the true standouts. I actually travel to Nashville (and Austin) a fair bit for work so I'm more plugged into those teams than most as I don't watch a ton of MLS. It's part of the reason I started following Zimmerman more closely. I remember him anchoring LAFC well but not a ton before that. He definitely hit a poor run of form late summer but I do think he has snapped out of it. He just seemed tired and between the coach giving him some rest in August and that idiotic handball call against Galaxy and the yellow that turned into a red, he has gotten a bit of a break and it's clearly helped. He needs a real break though and he's not alone. Your point and Gregg somehow making good players look worse is one of his worst traits. I've been a massive fan of EPB for a long time. That's part of the reason I like the guys like Zimm and Miles Robinson who somehow are able to thrive where others can't and give them a bit of deference. He's not my coach pick but he's the one we got. I divide my center backs into two categories. I believe aerial ability is very important for our center backs especially if we insist on playing Ferreira as the 9 (don't get me started). We can't have a starting 11 with only McKennie who's halfway decent in the air. So for my aerial threats there are really only Zimmerman and Brooks unless you count Miazga. Therefore Brooks and Zimmerman would be my two picks for that role. I'd probably have Ream as my third choice for this role even though he is not a great aerial threat. Then I think you need a great 1 v 1 defender and at least one good passer to partner with Zimmerman. The only guy who fits all this criteria is Richards. I think EPB and McKenzie fit in reasonably well. I've seen more of McKenzie but it has not been very confidence inspiring. Therefore, I'd go with Richards and EPB. CCV and Sands are the odd men out for me. I don't think they fit either of those roles particularly well even though they are at least as good as some guys on the list. Plus we all know Brooks and EPB ain't going but a man can dream!
He's played in 8 games. He's played in 2 of them with Zimmerman (against Jamaica Nov. 2021 and El Salvador in January of 2022, both WCQs) and he's been injured and unavailable for about half of the games since first getting called in November 2020, including all 9 games since February of this year, up to today. He had started and gone 90 in 4 of the last 5 games he was available for (all WCQs). He looked like he had won a starting slot at CB, and I feel confident saying that he would have started next to Zimmerman for most of the 9 games since injuries started this year, including against Japan.
I suspect there's a lot of overlap among people who, two years ago, said (and I'll paraphrase here) "Berhalter is an idiot for calling Ream" and who now say "Berhalter is an idiot for NOT calling Ream".
That certainly applies to me... Some questions for you smart guy: Are you in some cult, where new information has no impact on your opinions? Have you ever thought that Jozy Altidore should start for the US? Do you feel that way right now?
Spicy! Yeah, players change. I haven't thought Jozy was an option for us for about two years. I just think it's ironic that a guy that many here lambasted as too old and slow and brain farty and not talented enough (Ream) would be the must-have "Call him or you're an idiot" player today. People have complained throughout the cycle that Berhalter needs to call x, y or z player because they are clearly better than who Berhalter actually calls up (Tyler Boyd, KDLF, Matt Hoppe come to mind). Then those guys show themselves to, in fact, NOT be the world beaters that the hype fans make them out to be. However, to be completely fair, I think that Ream is a better CB than Aaron Long at this point. What I don't know is if he should be in a lineup next to Zimmerman, who I have as my hands-down number 1 CB. He's been a steady player for many years and has great experience and, while I have only watched about 60 minutes of Fulham this year, it certainly seems like he's hit a really strong patch in his play.
I do think lots of people who didn't want Ream before wanted someone like Brooks who has experience and passes well, leaving less need for someone like Ream. But, now you have a Tim Ream who is having more success than ever and a backline being asked to pass and leaving off one of our best passers from the back. And Brooks is not in game shape. So, even if the player hasn't changed the situation has.
This is undoubtedly true but there was also a decent contingent of people who wanted Tim Ream to stay involved but not as a left back! And a lot of people wanted him gone due to his age before we realized he is, in fact, timeless. Ream has frustrated me plenty over the years but hard to deny the form he is in and the level he's doing it at. Personally I'd have both him and Brooks in and evaluate them to be the guy who plays the Zimmerman slot as his likely backup. My guess is Ream would be happier doing that than Brooks but who knows.