Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens True. If you are only going to get out a couple times a year, you might hit up the DH in lieu of a stand alone game. I know people that do this actually. I can see it takin a bite, especially out the games right around it.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens But it cuts both ways. It exposes fans of the one-off to the club side. The sheer numbers suggest that a certain percantage of those fans will later decide to come back and see the club team - a decision they wouldn't have taken without the DH having gotten them off their sofas and into the stadium. Now, what the "net effect" is, who knows? Certainly some semi-regulars opt for the DH over a regular game, but then some DH attendees realize that taking in an occasional game can be fun. I do think, however, that standalone, special games like USA/England at Soldier Field probably drain fans from the Chicago Fire without adding anything to the team's average.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Kevin, I don't have time to respond to every post and some people, such as Mr. Monster, I ignore, at least until they behave in a polite fashion. Garber and company made some good moves in the past but now I think they are doing many dumb things: Beautification of Adu, adding Chivas USA, adding 3 players to each roster but making them senior internationals. Adu flopped and people are not going to bite as easily on the next Messiah. Sorry, guys, I heard all this before with the Spurs, Mustangs and Sting. The ASL was way before my time but it sounds like the same problem there too, at least in some respects. The ASL tore itself apart with internal fighting, even as it was outdrawing the fledgling NFL on some days. The Chicago disaster-and it IS a disaster-is a combination of local factors and national factors. I think the whole league is in trouble, but it still might make it. It is not too late to save it.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Which of those teams had their own revenue generating stadium? Have you heard that one before? Inquiring minds want to know.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Andy, the stadium should make money. People won't have to drive to Wisconsin to go to a rock concert. I am talking about the team, whether it survives or not. Whether the MLS survives or not. Hope this clears things us....
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens If the stadium makes money, the team makes money. If the team makes money, it will flourish. If the teams flourish, MLS survives. Hope this clears things up. asshat
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens AEG was not too pleased when Bridgeview cahnged some of the terms of tghe lease giving the Fire less control over the stadium. I don't know all the details-with the MLS you are lucky if you know ANY details-but it seems the Fire will have a good lease, better than the baloney with Reinsdorf's servants, but a lease nontheless. I believe rock concerts will not help the Fire unless AEG schedules them, and even then, you can debate the point. There are other problems. The MLS is evolving into a minor league for the Mexican League and that will drive away US fans in droves.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens I couldn't remember the name of it. I thought that SUM has the ability to do the same thing that ChampionsWorld was doing, but doing it with MLS sides, and I *thought* they did it by buying out ChampionsWorld. Apparently I was wrong. But - it doesn't change the fact that MLS/SUM is going to be finding more ways to cross-market to the fans who follow European football.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Champions World filed bankrupcty after last summer's tour with Manchester United's Best. SUM did not have to buy any rights from the bankrupt entity. Soccer promoters in the US have always gone bankrupt. We have a 100 year time line to look at.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens The New York Times reported SUM did indeed buy the CW assets, but that was incorrect.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Andy disses Tom with this comment 3x in this thread... Guess we won't be seeing TF's photo on YCJ anytime soon! Sorry to see this between two major BS posters. The tendency of many posters to overstate their case to begin with is followed by a descent into personal comments during reply posts. Many BS threads are re-treads (re-threads?). We tend to bemoan the fate of the teams, the league, national teams, soccer in general. The whine (def: complain in a feeble or petulant way) level is relatively high on all websites. We complain (whine?) about elderly attitudes, but seem to exhibit the same behaviour on-line.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens I can't control such outbursts. The appalling lack of civility among US soccer fans is one of the reasons soccer keeps failing in the US. The book "Offside", much admired by some people here, makes that point again and again. The received wisdom is MLS needs small stadiums where they control their own destiny. Fine, why is Columbus in trouble? People say it is because the team is doing badly. Then it isn't the stadium, is it? Every team can't win and if losing teams are not viable, the league is not viable. MLS still has a chance. It might make it. But I am much more pessimistic than I was last year, in part because of the dramatic meltdown in Chicago, which had been a strong MLS market. Remember, the Fire needs Bridgeview more than Bridgeview needs the Fire. Once they get the stadium built, they don't really care if the Fire pay rent or not. They can make more money on rock concerts and high school football than MLS. The new lease the Fire has with Bridgeview is not dipped in gold, you can say that for sure. Making MLS the Major Adu Soccer League was a disaster. Having Brandi Chastian on TV 13 times during each broadcast is a bad, bad idea. Adding Chivas, and now San Jose as a Mexican farm team, was a disaster. Adding 3 more players to the roster, all foreigners, was a disaster. Hispanics, by and large, are boycotting MLS. The only real hope is getting more American fans. Do you think adding a team that will not hire non-Mexicans is a plus for a struggling league?
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens America is extremely intollerant of different viewpoints. In fact the general path forward in America is to villify anybody who has a differnt view point. Now Flannigan you can start 1 million threads with MLS is gonna die themes, but it doesn't change the fact that if Uncle Phil wanted to personally keep the league alive he could do so with 5000 attendance for all 12 teams probably for the next 100 years. Now, please explain again how MLS is going to die?
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Good post. Keep in mind that Anchutz is 75 years old. He could die or become incapaciated at any time. It also seems that AEG is cutting back its commitment. If current rumors pan out, AEG will own only 3 out of 13-14 teams. I really don't see AEG making a greater commitment. He just lost his shirt on the Game of Their Lives Movie. Everyone underestimates the hostility the monopoly press has for men's soccer. You saw it with the movie "critics." If attendnace at most clubs continues to decline MLS will dioe. It will devolve into a larger Aleague or-just as likely-a farm league for the Mexican League, albeit with some nice stadiums paid for by US taxpayers.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Another Flannigan lie. He is 65 (or 66 - born in 1939, but no birthday give in this article. You were told this in this post yet you continue to perpetuate the lie.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1193661/ Anchutz is 75. Saying he is 65 is like saying Adi is 16. The Wall Street Jounral also said Mr. Anchutz was born in Kansas in 1930. This weekend has been a DISASTER for MLS attendance. We saw 8,700 in Dallas but the real disaster was in two soccer specific stadiums: 12,200 for Chivas and 12, 990 in Columbus. The Columbus disaster featured Freddy Adu, the guy MLS put most of its marketing effort into. This is a holiday weekend, guys with great weater. These attendance figures are a disaster.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens IMDB is wrong. And you lie. I thought you didn't read my posts, Tom.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens MLS should start telling the truth. Forget the fairy tales about Adu being 16 with a father who is 6.4. I think Adu is 19 or 20. He hasn't grown in 2 years. Forget the fairy tales about Anchutz being 65. He is 75. The Wall Street Journal said so.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Anschutz I have this great idea for a website: http://www.factchecktomflannigan.org/. What do you guys think?
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens 1. You really should learn how to spell the man's name right if you're going to continue to lie about him and siparage his name. 2. A story in the April 22, 2004 WSJ describes the "64-year-old Anschutz" so he's got sme sort of aging crisis going on. Please, Thomas. Don't ******** with people who know how to access databases to prove how big of a liar you are. Besides, I thought you didn't read my posts? Go away now.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens He was born in 1930. It doesn't really matter if he is 115; he is getting out of the MLS, team by team. The Mexicans are getting into the MLS, team by team. It may well devolve into a farm system for the Mexican League. Let's see how many jobs they offer to American players!
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens You have one source. I have a good hundred or so, including one who you claimed back you up. Leave now for your own sake, Thomas.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens University of Kansas says he was born in 1930. He graduated from there so KU ought to know. http://www.nndb.com/people/498/000094216/
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Liar Two Web sites say he's born in 1930. Every single newspaper - including the one you lied about saying he was 75 - say he was born in 1939. The one you posted is not KU. A KU site (http://www.kuhistory.com/proto/story-printable.asp?id=77) says he was born in 1939. So are you going to believe the Internet Movie Database or John H. McCool, a history professor at Kansas? See, this is why Big Soccer will be a better place without you, Thomas. You come up with such pathetic, hysterical fantasies that can be disproven with a single thought from a working brain, so you have to fall back on lies to try and prove your petty little problems. Go away, Thomas. You are a liar, a hateful person and a troll. The attendance issues of this year are no more a signal of the death of MLS than events like MLS Cup 2003 and other fantastic attendances are of the end of difficult times.