Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens You can call it leverage or just part of the deal. In the end, too many people equated the deal with HD for MLS as being 70-40 = 30 which is absolutely untrue. That equation holds true for HD but not for MLS's side of things. Andy
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens The problems that Sam's Army and the USAS have had aren't relevant. I know the game in Chicago wasn't a great showing for the active US supporters, but that wasn't the only US game played this year. There were good results in Columbus and Birmingham in addition to Salt Lake. And in the two former places, the US had been there before. In fact, I think the reality is that active US support is beyond Sam's Army (the actual organization) and is now its own thing (with or without the infrastructure of SA) speaks volumes. As far as Chicago, reading your posts, has it occurred to you that maybe it is more that Chicago's luck has run out and reality is setting in that you don't get a championship handed to you on a silver platter and that you have to (gasp!) earn it? DC went through the same thing, and look at them now. Right back to being their old arrogant selves (mostly I mean that in a good way.) And that had two things to do with - Adu and the championship run they made. Over 16k in attendance. And all that w/o a SSS. I know there are some negative factors. The parking - hell, don't you think that is something that AEG will be able to alleviate with the new stadium? Surely you don't think that is AEG's decision, do you? I know in Dallas we're constantly killed by high parking prices that the club doesn't see a dime of. But that will change in Frisco. Look, if you don't want to consider the positives, so be it. But it seems most everyone else sees the forest and the trees on this one, not just the one ugly tree that could use some pruning that you're staring at.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Just FYI - http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...0627fire,1,7137656.story?coll=cs-soccer-print
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens 1. If people care more about a player/official than the team, then they aren't the kind of fans you want. Screw them. 2. Parking will be cheaper next year. 3. The Fire have had great success and have not been screwed at all. (I don't think that's the case leaguewide anyways) 4. See number one.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens That explains why they are focusing less on fan base now, sure. I am not casting judgement (this could be very well the right way to go about it), more just wondering outloud what kind of hit a teams fan base might take from unattentive ownership. I used to be a Met fan. After they went on strike in the 90's, I bailed. They never got me back as I just lost interest after that. Baseball is huge, so my 'vote' got cancelled out by many more that returned to the game. Soccer isn't so huge. They are drawing from a much smaller pool. I just wonder if we are gunna see 8,000 Frisco (which would be an improvement) or wether we will see the 14,000 Frisco that many are predicting. Will there be more people like me that have just fallen off or more like those that returned to baseball. Obviously I hope for the latter, but I am just not as confident as many people here seem to be. With so much MLS hope hinging on these stadiums, it's an extremely interesting time to be watching. Finally, the power of these stadiums put to the test. As far as your explanation as to why the teams are doing this; I don't agree with it necessarily, but i can see where they are coming from. But I am more of a build a good league and create a strong fan base first and the rest will come naturally kinda guy.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens A good point - so why are you taking an attitude that seems designed to dishearten the fans that we already have, and certainly isn't going to inspire anyone new....?
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens I'm very much wait and see as well. But I think they are building a fan base though - a corporate one. May not be what people around here like, but it's the nature of the beast these days.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens If Fire fans arent showing up because the team had a little down stretch that is pretty weak. They have been one of the best teams almost every year they have been in the league. If people just come out when a team is good well then this league doesnt have much of a future. How would they like to be a Rapids or Metro fan? As more teams come into the league, the chances of winning are going to be less and less for everyone.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens True. you ever go to an NBA game lately? It seems as if every seat is a corporate box. I think thats how they get away with charging those prices.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Being more of a purist, this route is obviously not my cup of tea.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Kevin, I think people need to hear the truth. I for one renewed my season's ticket package and plan to do so next year. But these numbers really worry me and too many people are saying don't worry, be happy. With numbers like these the corporations will not be here in 5 years. Fifteen years ago the Chicago Symphony hired a new general manager and music director. It was the cultural equivalent of civil war. New management made it clear that corporations were the future. I had volunteered for the orchestra for 9 years at that point and sat at a meeting where other volunteers were told we were not needed. Subscribers and volunteers were kicked out the door, basically. Orchestra Hall was built in 1900 and 80 per cent of the funds came from small donations of under 20 dollars. Corporations paid for 95 per cent of the huge renovation in 1999-2000. I was riding the train with one of the prominent string players around 1990 and he was very worried about the future. Basically he said we have lots of corporate money now but how about later on? Once grassroots support is extirpated it won't come back. How did all this pan out? The Great Corporate Sponsors didn't pan out at all. United Airlines is doing a slow dance of death in bankruptcy court. Borg Warner is on the way out too. Amoco pulled its sponsorship 5 years ago. Now they have a newly renovated, half-empty concert hall and the little guy is gone. They are mad as hell and won't take it any more. Like the White Sox, like the Black Hawks. Maybe the Fire too.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Well, I don't necessarily disagree with that last statement, but do you really think less than half a season is an indication that the trend will continue for 5 years? Please. That is quite an extreme view of things. Is it possible? Sure. But with MLS on the rise in so many ways (esp. level of play overall for the league), I don't see that. Granted, what is happening in Columbus is a concern, but that is an example of a team that didn't get the corporate side of it right. In fact, that is an example of why we NEED corporate support. There is no doubt that we need both. But again, 8k on a Wednesday is nothing to sneeze at. And we've already pointed out the parking issue. Is it so hard to understand that you're taking an indicator that probably does deserve watching and blowing it out of proportion? I've given you four chances to get it, and I'm not going to spend any more time with it. Best of luck.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens I agree level of play has improved. No doubt about it. But 9 out of 10 of last year's franchises have lower attendance, in some cases dramatically lower. The league has lost money 10 out of 10 years and attendance is heading south. Don't count on Big Brother and the Holding Company to bail us out.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens All Chicago needs are a couple more double-headers to artificially inflate their numbers. Are there any more scheduled?
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Hope to see you at games, but as far as this discussion is concerned, "Bu-bye."
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens That's like saying that high blood pressure is meaningless because what matters is that the heart is still beating strong. Attendance is diagnostic. If nobody wants to go to games, corporations aren't going to keep buying tickets very long. The steep attendance declines this year can't be wished away by attribution to the weather or to specific excuses. Those kinds of factors have applied every year. There are major declines in too many places this year. Thomas is dead on correct in zeroing in on Chicago as the biggest disaster. I don't think you can attribute this to the lost marketing budget, because I for one don't know anyone who ever went to a Fire game because of seeing an ad. I'm sure there are some people affected by the ads, but they were never contributing half our attendance. 3 weekend games below 10,000 is an incredible drop-off for us -- scary. Really! I think the trolls are the ones trying to pretend everything is fine. I fear that the impending move to Bridgeview has caused some fans to feel less attached to the team. The team will have to find replacement fans from the SW side/SW suburbs, but I think they've dug themselves a deep hole.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens You keep bringing up Columbus' poor attendance and the SSS as a scare sign for the entire league. I've answered several times why the Crew's attendance is what it is this year and I can answer it again, but like a good troll you ignore it repeating the same drivel so there's no reason to go back into it. Still one thing your ignoring is the Crew's history in CCS. The newness was over after 1999. Look at the 2000 attendance numbers for proof. I'm actually going to look at kenn.com this time so I don't make the same mistake as last time. The Crew lost 12.7% from 1999's inaugaral CCS season. Their median dropped from 17K to 14K that year. According to you the Crew should be done with. There should be no Crew organization because in 2000 the Crew failed even in a SSS. However, the Crew were able to weather that storm and grow back the fan base. The median went back up in 2001 to an all time high of 17,947 only to go way back down to 14K last year and will be lower this year. Why do you think if the Crew organization fix the problems as they did after the 2000 season, the Crew can't bounce back just like they did in 2001? Now granted HSG and the Crew FO have let things get far far far out of hand these last three years and I do think if something isn't done soon they will have problems bouncing back, but at this point there is no reason to think the precedent the Crew set in 2001 can't be dublicated in 2006. Why is it that teams like the Crew and even your precious F!re, can't have down cycles and then bounce back from them once they fix the things that caused the down cycle? I don't expect you to answer, just to keep spouting your drivel.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens I don't disagree that the attendance is troubling. But it certainly isn't a disaster. There are ups and downs. A season here, a season there is meaningless. We know for a fact, Peter Wilt has stated so, that the team is not spending as much money marketing the team this season. They're saving it to have more to spend next season. It's worth watching, but it's not dire, nor a disaster.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Good post. A very deep hole. The problem is, you don't just cook replacement fans up like you cook up a pizza. The MBAs sit around and say you can. You just slice it and dice it right? People can be manipulated by ads and smoke and mirrors. That is what they were taught at their MBA program. Try that with Chicago's enraged sports fans. The Chicago Fire will be a smash in 2006, barring some calamity. We have a 35 per cent chance of having an MLS team by 2010 (assuming there is an MLS in 2010). But the Dave Matthews Band will sell out in Bridgeview in 2011. Chicago fans are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore.