Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Kebzach, I have been to games but not as many as in the past. Work pressures and child care pressures have taken their toll. The MLS can still survive but we are facing big problems. All the facile answers have been shot down. Columbus is struggling with a nice SSS. I hope someone remembers to turn the lights off...
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens First of all, Columbus sucks and the fans are letting Hunt have it for his cheapness. He won't fire Andrulis because he won't pay 2 salaries at once, and as a result the team is going nowhere fast and the fans are (rightfully) speaking their mind by staying home. Secondly, back to this topic, you answered my post just as I hoped you would...you don't go to as many games as you used to, for a variety of reasons. I think you're not alone in this regard. After several years, more or less depending on the person, the routine of 6 games per year, 8 games per year, 10 games per year, 15 games per year, etc, becomes an old habit. People get tired of the routine. I used to go to any sporting event that I could go to, no matter who was playing and where it was. Now, as I've gotten older and other interests have come into my life, I go to "some" games. For me, the Fire haven't been hurt by this, but other sports and events have. Tom's personal situation may not be much different than a large segment of MLS and/or Fire fans, and, in that regard, the league really needs to work on "re-marketing" itself to a core group, to keep the core group intact.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Furthermore, continuing my thought about "re-marketing", I am optimistic that the Fire will do just that for Bridgeview 2006...re-market to the fans who "used to come out several times a year, but no longer do".
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens I've been going to Fire games for 8 years. There is no doubt the quality of play is MUCH worse than in prior years, other than last year. Advertising doesn't matter. Newspaper readership is getting smaller every year, and the Tribune in particular doesn't even cover the Fire games adequately, so why give them our money? What I don't see this year are the youth teams and groups in the number we have seen in the past.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens On Rep: Why do people care so much about it? It's a fine way to get feed back from people but in the end, ehhhhhhhh, its really just a bunch of red dots next to a made up name.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens There's no need to worry, at the end of the season the average will be around 15k. As for Chicago I think it would be good if that franchise would be sold.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens My post makes perfect sense, you simply read it wrong. Of course HDC wanted guaranteed business. All that I was pointing out was that it mattered not to AEG because that money was coming out of their pockets anyway. People, like yourself, continually misrepresent this as a financial concession on AEG's part when it was anything but. As such, you should never have mentioned it in your post because it did not change the $ amount for MLS at all. It did change the $ value for HD but that has nothing to do with the topic. The $40 million had to be spent somewhere (Lowes, HD, supplier X) so it made no difference on the bottom line for MLS (assuming of course HD did not then jack up prices on them). Andy
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Now that's a sign your attendance is getting low, when you can track everyone who is there or not.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Some good pointsd by Kebzach. MBAspeak tells us you can turn attendance on and off like a faucet. I don't think you can. The scary thing is that the Fire IS marketing. They have had lots of ads in the Tribune Sports section and the Sun-Times. Radio spots I do not know about. To me, soccer is like classical music; both have a very small base of support. It is so small you really can't afford alienating chunks of it. It can't be replaced very easily. In Chicago fans are mad as hell and not going to take it ianymore. Look at the attendance problems of the Black Kawks (pre strike) and White Sox. As soon as these fans see bad things from the MLS they pull the plug. Replacing Wilt was a bad move. It is costing at least 1000 people per game maybe more. They may never come back.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens This could be true. But have we ever seen a team put out to pasture be brought back to life? Will Frisco resuscitate Dallas? Maybe, but we don't know that yet. A fan base isn't a faucet that's easily turned on and off with some added advertising. I sense Chicago (with less hope in Big D) will be alright, but playing this game of 'letting it go till the stadiums are built' is a dangerous one.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens No you're not - you're yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. Luckily, you've been doing it long enough that people know better. "Look, it's Tom crying wolf again." If the current leadership hasn't proven to you that they are in this for the long haul, nothing will. Both AEG and HSG have spend millions of dollars to make this thing work (including tens of millions on the CCS and HDC), the USMNT is getting better, as is the quality of play in MLS (notice the reserve system, btw?) and SSS are about to pop up all over the country. And you want to talk about turning the lights off. Well, if you've lost faith, I can't help you with that. That is your own journey. But if you want a compatriot who will follow when you yell, "Charge!" into an MLS stadium to make noise in active support of an MLS team, I'm right there with you. Give me the flag, the drum, the fife or the sword - lead on. (Each to our own respective teams, of course.) But see, I don't see you doing that. Instead, you're saying things that aren't designed to inspire, but have the effect of discouraging those who don't know better and pi$sing off those that do. I'm not going to neg-rep you, but I am going to tell you what I think. I think you're wrong, that you're blowing a negative trend out of proportion and that you're handling it the wrong way. Do you not remember Korea? Take that as inspiration. And notice how much better each round of qualification has been in terms of US support (both active and passive) at the games. Remember Columbus in February? The Cold War? Remember how incredible it was to not only beat Mexico, but to do it in front of a passionate US crowd? Had that ever happened before? Do you remember Salt Lake? Seeing a stadium full of US support against a team that had done at least reasonably well against us both on the field and in the stands? Those things all translate. Look at all the positives from this season - the reserve teams, the announcement of the Rapids stadium, the expansion teams in LA and Salt Lake. Salt Lake alone should be a great inspritation. Sure, Chivas has work to do, but I think that is also a positive because it means they are not turning tail and running but are digging in deep to compete. That speaks volumes about respect. And I hope you make it down to Dallas for the MLS Cup, whether Chicago is in it or not. It will be a glorious day for MLS. I hope you are a part of it.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Yes, they paid a premoum, but did you realize they have more sponsorship deals than any other MLS team? Now that may be a lot of spin, butthey have certainly done a pretty good job in one area. He has said a lot more than that. Let's just leave it at that. All of that is correct for the most part. But a three-month attendance drop doesn't mean that there is a long-term disaster. 1. The league is not relying on TV contracts. 2. You say corporate sales disappear without fans, yet there are probably more strong corporate signs than ever in the league's history. What is happening in Chicago needs attention, but it's hard to make gloom and doom out of three months of dropping attendance when stadiums are opening/being planned, naming rights are being sold, ancillary revenues are being controlled, new investors are coming into the fold. I don't think the problem is SEM as much as the need to have more people involved in SEM, which brings about more ideas and greater competition within the structure. In fact, reports have said that SEM has changed a great deal over the years and probably will continue to do so. I think the league has a bright future as well and there will always be little things to be concerned about. I feel bad that people like Thomas need to make themselves feel important by turning them into much more than they really are.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Whatever. While I may not have faith in the Metro front office, I do have faith in the Chicago and Dallas FOs. Why? I see what Dallas is doing, and I know it is going to work. Just look at what they have done so far - once they turn that focus onto bringing in fans into the stadium, we'll be just fine. Sell out every game? Maybe not. But barring weather concerns, we'll have 15-16k every game. Why Chicago? Because that town knows about the Fire, and when they are winning, and when the deal is right, they will come. See, no one who is taking the "disaster" side of this is going into details. Funny that. Oh, and just so you don't think this is just some sort of "how could MY team fail" attitude - we've had our moments of doubt in Dallas. When word around the campfire whispered rumors of contraction, we felt the chill. When McKinney died, we worried about being moved to Houston or something else. But I've seen what is being done, and why. Mine eyes have seen the coming.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Look at Miami. They made the single largest percentage gain in MLS history, both in median and mean growth year over year and all it got them was a one way ticket to nevermoreland. Perhaps thats a clue that we all might be placing too much account on attendance growth or reduction on a micro level. There are obviously numerous other variables to be considered that affect the health of a franchise. Andy
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens True, it has to be spent somewhere....but from Home Depot's perspective, there isn't anything binding AEG to spend it at Home Depot...other than the naming rights money. That was my point. AEG might have been able to use this promise of future business as leverage.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens "Day and night he talks, each word more useless than the next!"
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Well, Miami wasn't about attendance, it was about the I/O. (This from a former MLS exec) Horowitz wanted all of the league owned teams shut down to stay in, or to be bought out. With the deal in McKinney brewing, they were't about to pull the plug on Dallas. That along with other issues forced Horowitz to bow out. Tampa Bay was doomed from the beginning - once it was clear the league had to contract in some fashion, they were done. The thing about that deal was that now MLS knows it has to screen its potential owners better. And that is a good thing.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens While I see your point, I think it is less of "letting it go until the stadiums are built" and more using their small staffs to focus more on the corporate side than the ticket side. MLS staffs are not huge. The Fire staff has just 36 people on the business side. They can't do everything. I honestly believe - and this was the hypothesis that started Thomas original meltdown - that this next year or two for several teams is very focused on cementing long-term corporate support. When they move into new stadiums, that will help attendance some because of skyboxes and corporate packages. Once that is taken care of, the general ticketing can slid up the priority list. Maybe, by then, the financial ship will be more righted to allow for larger staffs to take care of everything without having one side suffer.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens Kevin, no when questions your commitment. I deeply appreciate all you have done. I don't agree that national team support is on the upswing. Quite the contrary. Sam's Army stopped operating 3 years ago. US Supporters died an early death. We had a good crowd in Salt Lake as the USSF finally put games in different markets but I don't think national team support is growing. I think it is on the decline. I have heard the optimism before. People said the Sting would be here forever. Boy, were they wrong. I think local factors killing the Chicago numbers are: 1. Rage over the Wilt situation. Some of these people will never come back; 2. 18 dollar parking at Soldier Field; 3. The perception that MLS is an unfair league with managed competition, where Chicago and other franchises have gotten screwed for years. It is not a fair fight. 4. fans that have left have not been replaced. We used to have lots of Polish fans. Now there are only a few.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens I agree with you and would add playing on non-saturday nights, a squeeze on the advertising budget this year, a poor team last year and the baseball teams doing well.I also think AEG is making a mistake if they think they can neglect general ticket sales in favor of corporste sales. If corporations see a declining interest in team eventually they will lose that corporate sponsorship and they better not think they can turn it on next year just because the're getting a new stadium.
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens That was my entire point. We make attendance to be the be all and end all. There are many other variables in the health and well being of a franchise such as ownership. Andy
Re: Chicago Attendance Disaster Deepens With numbers like these MLS should just pack it in before they lose much more cash. It ain't never going to work. lol.