Ramon Ramirez & Francisco Palencia's status

Discussion in 'Archives: CD Chivas USA' started by CyphaPSU, Aug 5, 2004.

  1. SoulflyTribeFC

    SoulflyTribeFC New Member

    Mar 24, 2002
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    I don't know about over-the-hill for Palencia, but Ramirez is certainly washed up. Hernandez and Hermosillo did okay here, not great but just okay, and they were at about the same stage, give or take, that Palencia is in now. I don't know if anyone is expecting/believing anybody will light it up here. If they bring in a big name goalscorer that might be a different story but Palencia has never been looked upon as a true goalscorer the way Hernandez and Hermosillo were.

    And he needs to work on his PKs :)
     
  2. lond2345

    lond2345 Member

    Aug 19, 2002
    USA
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    I think the plan is to bring players that Chivas USA fans can identify with. I don't think they expect Palencia and the other old guys to light up the league. They just don't want the Chivas USA team to be full of young nobodys that no Mexican fan can recognize, so they bring guys like Palencia/Ramirez who the fans know and have history in Chivas in Mexico.
     
  3. swedcrip34

    swedcrip34 New Member

    Mar 17, 2004
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    I'm still open to being a Chivas USA fan. They're promising to deliver an attractive product on the field and I appreciate that versus some coaches counterattacking strategies that sometimes forget they're supposed to counterattack (in short bunker).

    But I'd be concerned about this teams ability to defend unless Chivas has some brilliant young defenders. If the plan is to send 10 players from Chivas and the defenders sent are worse than the ones I watched over both quarterfinal games, I'm not sure they can cut it in MLS. The draft so far has brought Perez and de la Torre, 2 guys not exactly beloved by their teams fans for their abilities to defend. Perez got burned quite a bit this year. de la Torre showed some flash going forward, but was criticized as below-average in his ability to defend. Maybe the plan is to win 5-4 every game and that'll be fun to watch. But I already see this as a potential huge issue. Not to mention goalkeeping. Wow did Oswaldo give up a bad goal. Still, I'm hopeful that the youth playeres brought up should be really good. I just hope this isn't viewed as a 100% reserve squad plus a bunch of guys not on their former teams top 12. The draft and these "new blood" tryouts may be crucial, at least on the defensive end.
     
  4. Makaveli 13

    Makaveli 13 New Member

    Jul 23, 2004
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    Martin "El Pulpo" Zuñiga.....great Chiva goalkeeper. Its gonna be great to see him play again. BTW "el pulpo" means the octopus in english for u who were wonderin'. <
     
  5. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    Look I understand the part about marketing the team, with older player. However, unless the team plays, it has gimick written all over it. Just the fact that the team is USA instead of LA, to me is a joke.


    I've been in favor of bringing in Chivas. I felt it was a good way of gearing up LA's large, yet relatively quiet fanbase. I think it could really begin to get MLS noticed in LA, and thus grow from there. However, bringing in these washed up players is not the solution in my view.

    Palencia is not what he was even 2 years ago. We'll see. I also think the league has improved defensively quite a bit since Hermosillo and even Hernandez was here. Maybe not in individual defender standouts, but in overall team organization, I think the league is much better.
     
  6. SoulflyTribeFC

    SoulflyTribeFC New Member

    Mar 24, 2002
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    Chivas USA is already generating a buzz out here in SoCal. There are a lot of people who will pay attention to MLS now because of Chivas USA who could have given two flips about it just last season. The Spanish media is all over Chivas USA and give them a lot more coverage than the Galaxy. The Galaxy has a show on a Spanish channel every Saturday (at least during the season) and their goals are shown on TV but Chivas USA leads off the sports while the Galaxy does not.

    This isn't a gimmick, it's for real. Vergara and Cue wouldn't be wasting their time if they thought that this wasn't serious. We'll see what kind of product they put on the field, but remember, they won't be getting a bunch of 35-year-old internationals; six of their foreigners will be youth internationals, so you'll see energetic youngsters if nothing else.
     
  7. USvsIRELAND

    USvsIRELAND Member+

    Jul 19, 2004
    ATL
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    I agree
     
  8. dna77054

    dna77054 Member+

    Jun 28, 2003
    houston
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    About the defense and age of incoming players. If this team really plays like a Mexican team, which puts a premium on possession, age and defense may not be that much of a problem. With their sort passing game and positional play, the older players (with good savy and good ball skills) may be able to contribute more than they would with a regular run like hell MLS team. After all, the ball does not get tired. And their idea of defense is not letting the other team have the ball. In head-to-head, MLS teams have not faired too well agaist this type of team as evidenced in the game with regular Mexican club teams.
     
  9. jkl;

    jkl; New Member

    Oct 15, 2003
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    What about Ezra?
     
  10. swedcrip34

    swedcrip34 New Member

    Mar 17, 2004
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    I think I overlooked Ezra and Ziadie. My guess is Ziadie isn't returning to MLS. Ezra can definitely still play, but I'm not sure how much longer he can be a quality 90 minute player. He's slowing and isn't as effective on the outside and not quite proven as a central defender. He could be good, but I'm not sure. Definitely wouldn't bet on a season of 90 minutes performances. But he didn't really play that much this season, so maybe? It'll be interesting to see the clash in styles. Will on predominate? If not, I'd be concerned about the backline, especially if MLS style prevails.
     
  11. Kevin Lindstrom

    Oct 28, 2003
    Dallas, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    Let me say first that I think that the players CD Chivas USA will bring in ought to be more than competitive - keep in mind that the salary cap is what is going to hold them back from bringing in "big" names, but Rongen knows enough to bring in players who fit in the cap and who are competitive.

    Additionally, C-G might be able to help limit the salary cap impact of some of these players.

    But - the idea that the "Mexican style of possession" will work in MLS and allow the older players to be more effective? I think not. They are (once again) going to run into more athletic players, who are going to outhustle them (once again). Skill alone will work in the defensive third and probably the middle third, but in their offensive third, they are going to run into problems.

    It won't be pretty, and it will be pretty frustrating (for general soccer fans and fans of CD Chivas USA), but it won't be the style that puts Chivas over other MLS teams - it will be the players. (If it happens - keep in mind, there is no real way to gague how this is going to play out until they are actually playing. Who knew how Chicago and Miami were going to do?)

    Again, I hope Chivas well - in the stands and on the field (except against FC Dallas '96, of course!) - and we will just have to see how it plays out. But style? That isn't going to be the difference. (imho, of course)
     
  12. SoulflyTribeFC

    SoulflyTribeFC New Member

    Mar 24, 2002
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    Well, not all 28 roster spots are going to go to Mexicans. They do have MLSers Arturo Torres, Orlando Perez, Francisco Gomez, Ezra, Matt Taylor, Jamil Walker, et al, who are familiar with the style of play in MLS and I think these players will get significant playing time.

    I'm curious to see how their three-forward attack works out. Maybe I just don't pay attention to these types of things but I can't remember seeing the Gs play a three-striker team this season, at least not one that started out that way.

    I think Chivas could look a lot like Miami did, with that great team of Preki, Diego Serna and Chacon, those guys worked magic with the ball. Preki was a stud but Serna and Chacon weren't exactly hits once they left Miami. IIRC they were about the same age as Palencia is now.
     
  13. Don Boppero 3000

    Don Boppero 3000 DNALMQNLGLLMX!

    Jan 15, 2001
    The Fullerton Hotel Chicago
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    Rumor has it Palencia is not intrested in playing with Chivas USA. This was reported on Contacto Deportivo. They also mentioned that Vergara will not force Palencia to play for Chivas USA even though they already had a contract, but Vergara will not allow him to play with any other Mexican teams.
     
  14. Don Boppero 3000

    Don Boppero 3000 DNALMQNLGLLMX!

    Jan 15, 2001
    The Fullerton Hotel Chicago
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
  15. MightyMouse

    MightyMouse BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 19, 2003
    Island paradise east of the mainland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    Interesting about Palencia, as much as I hated tha guy when he played for Mexico against the US, I respect him as a no nonsense player. He is definitely one of the best I've seen from Mexico. I wonder exactly what it is that he suddenly doesn't want to play in LA. I suppose he is 100% still thinking in his mind he can help his first team before moving on to different experiences. I for one, from a club and MLS point of view, hope that a Palencia that wants to play in the US is the one that shows up if he even does. Nothing is worse than having an unhappy player on your team not giving his all.
     
  16. socksgov

    socksgov New Member

    Jun 7, 2004
    california
  17. juventino3

    juventino3 Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Alexandria, VA
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    Palencia is shiit. He has no chance of being a dominant scorer in MLS. It will be fun to watch him and Ramirez get hacked by some of the more thuggish MLS defenders. I would be suprised if either of their old asses make it through the year healthy.
     
  18. Don Boppero 3000

    Don Boppero 3000 DNALMQNLGLLMX!

    Jan 15, 2001
    The Fullerton Hotel Chicago
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    Does not look like Palencia will ever suit up as a Chivas USA member.
     
  19. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Chicago
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    Next question then: What senior international do they get to replace him?
     
  20. dna77054

    dna77054 Member+

    Jun 28, 2003
    houston
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    I hear batistuta is available.
     
  21. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Chicago
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    Isn't he collecting social security checks by now?
     
  22. Various Styles

    Various Styles Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Re: Ramon Ramirez + Francisco Palencia

    Playing in the Qatar league, was even mentioned as a possible transfer to Barcelona to replace the injured Larsson !!! Old man Batigol at Chivas USA would be interesting.. .
     
  23. swedcrip34

    swedcrip34 New Member

    Mar 17, 2004
  24. churchill2000

    churchill2000 3x MLS Cup Champions

    Jul 12, 2004
    Monde Virtuel
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Re: Palencia confirmed to stay in Mexico

    I hate to be right.

    But this is exactly what is going to hurt CD Chivas USA's chances of becoming successful, on the Business side.

    The good news is that this might allow the team's performance to be better, I mean those who have been fans of MLS know, most players past their 30's, playing in their first year in MLS have had minimal success.
     
  25. SoulflyTribeFC

    SoulflyTribeFC New Member

    Mar 24, 2002
    Re: Palencia confirmed to stay in Mexico

    The question is, who do they get to replace him. You figure, he would have brought some name status to the team. Now, you're left with Ramon Ramirez, somebody who is probably not a 90-minute player anymore. Some of the other guys, Zuniga, Loera, those guys aren't names. Palencia would have given the club some legitimacy.

    I wonder what direction they'll go in. I agree with churchill, though, this can only hurt Chivas USA.
     

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