Tell me about Ramon Ramirez and Francisco Palencia Ramon Ramirez and Francisco Palencia are the first two Chivas USA signees. I have some questions about these two players: I understand that Ramirez has been an important player on the Mexican national team for some time, but what about Palencia? Are these guys in the starting 11 (or even on the roster) for the Mexican national team as of today? If they are still pretty good, why would Vergara pull these players away from Chivas Guadalajara in order to place them on Chivas USA? Or might it be because they are at the point in their careers where they are getting past their primes?