Racism - Forever and Always

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, Oct 25, 2023.

  1. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While it's still available
     
  2. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Kinda reminds me of one of my favorite NY Mets - Edgardo Alfonzo. He's Venezuelan.

    Alfonzo_Edgardo-768x960 (2).jpg
     
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  3. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Dutch don't see race
     
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  4. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Edwin Gorter must have been Swiss
     
  5. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Yes, you absolutely should understand, but what you need to understand has not been made clear to you. I'm a bit concerned that you see me as "on edge".

    I'm more of a reporter. I cut to the chase, and I sometimes use descriptive terms that don't go over well with the ruling class, but I am a fair and accurate judge/predictor of human behavior.
    I want to say that I predicted all the losses POCs and women and gays and the poor have already incurred, faaaar beyond what the other left-leaning posters here saw coming. There is no edge for me to be on- there is only a flat plane of conservatism as far as you can walk, fly or drive. The issue is not Auria. Auria sharpened Occam's razor for him at Occam's request. NostAuriaDamus has been validated in every Trump decision since he decided to run in 2016. The issue is America. You have that part correct.

    And there's nowhere to go. Mom's 85, probably can't relocate. I'll hold out as long as I can and die here, thanks.
     
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  6. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I know you're talking about Pele. I was comparing Maradona and Messi, and I prefaced by saying that I watched them both play.

    I'm enough of a futbol nerd that I watched a lot of highlights of Pele, including the movie Pele Eterno, and I've seen enough to know that he had to be up there, but not enough to make a fair comparison with players I've seen in real time and in lots of matches. Based on his accomplishments and on the assertions of those who did see him play, he obviously belongs in the discussion.

    If you want to talk about black players, I will say that based on players I've watched in real time matches, a fair argument can be made for Ronaldo (the Brazilian), that at his peak he may have been the best ever. Obviously his career was cut short by injuries, and he's probably considered a notch below the likes of Maradona and Messi mostly for that reason.
     
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  7. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Without racial identification, how would you be able to determine if there is racial discrimination and to what extent by universities, employers, landlords, loan officers, etc?
     
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  8. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not best ever. Top 10, but not top 4 (or 5 if you want to include Di Stephano, which I've seen in places). Another Black players arguably in the top 10 is Garnacha.
     
  9. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know, and I was needling you in the Brasil v. Argentina competition, along with the tongue-in-cheek bit about this being the racism thread.

    I'm enough of a futbol nerd that I watched a lot of highlights of Pele, including the movie Pele Eterno, and I've seen enough to know that he had to be up there, but not enough to make a fair comparison with players I've seen in real time and in lots of matches. Based on his accomplishments and on the assertions of those who did see him play, he obviously belongs in the discussion.

    Yup. If not for injuries, he would absolutely be there.
    There is the racism which I know exists in the Netherlands. And also identifying by race, which I can't believe does not exist. The later is not necessarily racism, as my poorly worded response indicates. But, when there is racism, it does identify by race.
     
  10. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yes, sadly that’s true, especially up to the early 19th century. That doesn’t mean that they didn’t get to have sex and contribute to the genetic makeups of some Europeans. Also some of the children that colonizers had with natives went to Europe.
     
  11. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Pele or Jimmy Brown....pick one! :mad:
     
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  12. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    :confused:o_O:cautious:

    This really isn't a suitable replacement for being displaced and sent across an ocean. It just isn't. There wouldn't be any interest in altering their genetic makeup if it meant soiling my own.

    ASF it's not like he brought this part up. You did this all by yourself. I'm seriously trying to understand why a displaced, mistreated Indian would imagine a night with some European redneck (because back then, they're the only ones who'd ******** him) with 75 miles worth of dick on her odometer already, as some kind of accomplishment. She's been around the block enough times that the town square is named for her. And I don't even want to think about the poor, scared young Indian women being pawed and drooled on by this or that Miles Cowperthwaite

    Again. I'd avoid this as much as I could in the interest of not having a child become a serial killer or eat too much mayonnaise. I kid, but you're describing in one case a man who doesn't deserve the gift he's about to take (because a good Indian woman would never give it to him) and in another, a woman who isn't worth the attention you might have to give her to get her to do what she's always done for White boys without much convincing.
     
  13. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Pele is the GOAT. I don't need to have seen him play live to know that.
    Jim Brown was no Jerome Bettis..
     
  14. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Bullticky...Jim Brown was the one I loved/hated to watch the most. I cried when he got his in "'The Dirty Dozen"! :(
     
  15. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    The Dirty Dozen and others were why he only "got his" a few years ago... He'd won an NFL title, the team was aging, and cinema offered more money with way fewer risks.

    I never really hated a player, and the only times I came close were when the Steelers had to play Jacksonville. Fred Taylor was a good RB against anybody else, but he turned into a total beast against Pittsburgh on multiple occasions.
     
  16. InTheSun

    InTheSun Member+

    Oct 20, 2005
    The Andes Mountains
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    That's Garrincha, not fire-marshall-bill-looking twerp at yanited.
     
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  17. Dominican Lou

    Dominican Lou Member+

    Nov 27, 2004
    1936 Catalonia
    Correct about Veron, incorrect about Maradona.

    He's still more beloved than Messi, I think. People identify with his passion, his grit, his explosive personality, and his poor background, than with Messi's quieter demeanor and European upbringing.

    So yeah, the little brown guy with black hair is the (almost) unquestioned national hero.

    And that's just another one of the Latin American paradoxes when it comes to race. In certain respects super racist... in others, pretty open.
     
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  18. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Interesting. Do you think it has anything to do with him being dead? And this passion thing. Europeans equate that with emotional behavior and femininity. Why wouldn't the Albiceleste follow that instruction from their UEFA overlords?

    I wonder what Enzo Corle- uh, Fernandez would have had to say about Veron. He's not Black, but he's about as Black as it gets in Argentina unless they're hiding people...

    I guess when you set up a whole food chain to make people fight one another instead of realizing that, despite whatever squabbles between civilizations there, they were facing a more sinister power than anything on their continent, and uniting against the Spanish big boss... you get lots of confusion among the victims as to who the perps are. That's by design.

    It's actually kind of brilliant, got millions of people following a Eurofaith, speaking a Eurotongue, and still arguing among themselves as to who is actually human and who is not. Frankly, I'd like to see Messi go on some sort of tour trying to stop his fellow citizens from dehumanizing folks who are only a shade darker.
     
  19. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's an interesting way to describe rape...

    Often as property...

    Also, Sally Hemmings says hello
     
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  20. Dominican Lou

    Dominican Lou Member+

    Nov 27, 2004
    1936 Catalonia
    The use of racial terms as both pejoratives and terms of endearment throughout Latin America is almost impossible for outsiders to understand. In the Northern European/Anglo world, if you're using a racial term in casual conversation, it's used as an insult, end of story.

    In Latin America, it varies tremendously.

    Having said that, this case with Riquelme is also very clear: the motherfuker was being racist
     
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  21. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Of course it was rape. All those Latin Americans who are part European, part Native American, even those whose grandparents supposedly all came from Europe, we are all, well most of us, the children of the raped and the rapist. That is our ancestry, and maybe that explains our history and defines who we are.

    And yeah, it applies to most of the gringos as well.
     
  22. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Thank you.

    Damn... center fielder didn't even look up- somebody got their windshield busted in the parking lot

    Well put. Jefferson had a "relationship" with a woman who could not refuse consent. That's not a relationship.
     
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  23. Dominican Lou

    Dominican Lou Member+

    Nov 27, 2004
    1936 Catalonia
    The dead always get elevated but Maradona was a national hero even while alive.

    Very much so.

    They were completely outnumbered so they gave a lot of mestizos (indigenous/white mixes) many privilege and social advantages so that their allegiances would lie with Europeans instead of the indigenous.



    Maradona himself had a lot of anti-racist positions. He defended Bolivia's decision to play in La Paz (over 3,600 meters of altitude) when many South American countries were against it. Altitude isn't race but there were racial undertones behind this.

    He also spoke out against discrimination in Argentina and brought up how he himself was discriminated (for being poor and dark) while growing up.

    He famously riled up Neapolitan pride against the richer, whiter northern Italians.

    So the national hero for racist Argentina is this dark dude that had a lot of very public anti-racist stances.

    I'm telling you, Latin American race relations is mighty complex.
     
  24. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #1149 argentine soccer fan, May 14, 2025
    Last edited: May 14, 2025
    Maradona had something Messi doesn't have. Charisma. He was an asshole, but he was very likeable. People's love for Maradona went beyond his skill on the field. Messi is a nice guy, but he's not really likeable. If people love him, it is because of his skill on the field.

    What Messi has that Maradona didn't have is discipline.
     
  25. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    You don't say? :D

    18s15rgxhr3vejpg.jpg
     
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