For me, Maradona was the bigger genius, but Messi got more out of his talent. As for the race/class issue, I always thought of Messi as a typical Argentine from the middle class. My understanding is that his father was a factory manager, not an owner. I've had many, many Argentine friends ( My son's best friend is Argentine, and he's like family ) and aquaintances in different shades and ethnic backgrounds, and the shade of skin color didn't command what social class they were. Some I've met from the higher class and Buenos Aires in particular, would sometimes be more likely to have an attitude about race. But in all fairness, this is not something that is particular to white upper class Argentines in Latin America, it's just that they have a higher percentage of these folks. When I was a high schooler my mom had an Argentine friend who would always rag on the indigenous types of the other latin-american countries. Until we pointed out that I had some Argentine class mates that were pure indigenous background. She nervously said, "they must be "Mendozinos'", as if that didn't make them Argentinian. Yup. I have some Argentine friends that that have twin boys. One is light skinned and green eyes and European features, the other more like Riquelme or Passarella.
This is the best way to put it, I think. He grew up in what in Argentina is considered a middle class neighborhood of Rosario, but middle class in Argentina is not the same as what people would consider middle class in the US or Western Europe. His "middle class" standard of living would be much more humble. Some Argentines live in denial. I knew a guy who bought one of those deals from companies that check your genetic makeup. And he was pissed because he was told he was something like 5 percent descendant of some native tribe. He said it was bullshit, the company had to be wrong, because he knew for a fact that his grandparents all came from Europe in the 19th or 20th century. I mean, even if he was right about his grandparents, it doesn't prove anything. Europeans first "discovered" America in the 15th century. Since then lots of Europeans went to America and back, and lots of Native Americans also went to Europe, and I'm sure in all that back and forth they all had sex with others. I'm sure plenty of people who never left Europe to this day also have American native in them. But I guess this moron just couldn't accept it.
You've been out of there longer than a month. There's no need for this kind of statement. That's disgusting. Shame on all of them, and on you for not joining me in absolute condemnation. I didn't quote you on most of this because I kind of knew you'd deflect thru explanation. There is no suitable explanation, sorry
I'm explaining linguistics, because you made a point about what a word is supposed to mean to Argentines, and I grew up there speaking Argentine Spanish. I wasn't making a point about moral judgement. Of course what was said by Anello is absolutely reprehensible. What was said by Riquelme and his daugher, on the other hand, if you speak and understand our lingo, is not.
At some point this nation decided to forget the existence of the one-drop rule. That great-grandma who never would explain their origins is just a footnote, if that.
Fair enough. That said, I was making a point about what a word is supposed to mean to Argentines who have made it out. Becoming a man and putting away childish things, so to speak...
You're speaking in the past tense. That didn't really happen, you know. It probably will eventually, lol ???? Knowing their origins doesn't change how they'll be classified, starting around puberty. Certain institutions and relationships will be off-limits to them from that point forward.
What has this to do with racism? If an Argentine player is white or black, he's referred to as Argentinian. Why on earth would we address him as by way of his colour? You can dig in the Dutch press and find they never in the decades we wrote about Maradonna it ever was about his skin. I find it perplexing this is even an issue in the USA. In all the years Brasilian players like Romario and Ronaldo etc. played in the Netherlands, nobody mentions their skin color or lack of it. The USA really is some place and things like this make me understand completely Auriaprottu when he's on edge overthere. It's American second nature I learned about the USA that skin color issues is just a blink away to pop up.
No, my point was that Dominican mentioned how people were referred to by how they looked. You countered by saying nationality. That suggests that there is no racism (identifying people by race) in the Netherlands. I think this is false. Now, I'm not making it equivalent to anywhere else, but I think that flatly saying that there is no racial identification (as in racism) in the Netherlands strikes me false.
In my hometown of Cochabamba, you call a boyfriend or girlfriend a negro or negra no matter their skin color. Their is just a general pressumption that none of us are 100% European. Of course, in Latin America, most of the colonizers were men who married in to the native ruling class so in our case it's absolutely valid. I suppose so. Latin Americans think a bit different as I noted above.
Thank yew! Thank yew so much! <looks at camera> Hi, Mom! I also wanna thank mah sponsors- Quaker Oats and Acoustic Image amplification...
Right. I was talking about Riquelme who was addressing Argentines, using the word as Argentines would. I remember there was an issue when Cavani used "negrito" to refer to one of his Uruguayan fans, and in England they made a big deal out of it. It's different obviously when Maradona used "negrito" to refer to Brazilians. While the word itself does not have the connotations that the N word in English does, there is no doubt that in that context his intent was obviously to denigrate Brazilians based on race. That's an example of someone (Diego) who is a member of the discriminated class, but also ignorantly denigrates others. It does help to understand our language. There are lots of words that have different meanings. For example, the insult "verdulero" was used against Riquelme, and in Argentina in that context it is very offensive. But if you as an American call me a produce salesman, unless you say it specifically because you do know what it means to us and you want to hurt me with it, it obviously wouldn't have the same offensive meaning.
Some liberals have a problem when they speak about race, namely: 1. They insist race is a social construct BUT 2. They don’t understand that it’s going to be society dependent, context dependent Me, I agree with #1. Except for rare situations like if you’re talking about sunscreen and Vitamin D, or sickle cell anemia, things like that, race is wholly a social construct, and so it’s very context dependent, ergo lecturing Argentinians about Argentine culture is pretty dumb.
???? First you got a weird perception of racism=identificating by race. In my book racism is negatively categorizing people by their skin/looks. I think you're transferring American customs to the Netherlands. Racial identification etc. is banned from official documentation/administration, because in WWII the nazi scum used our perfect administration to find our Jewish citizens. After the war all descriptions of race and religion were scrapped. And in normal day to day interactions I can't imagine what situations you need racial identification. You're using your American attitude as a template for the rest of the world. Just tell me how/in what way one uses racial identification in normal day life.
When in the USA, you better be vegetarian with all those grow hormones infested beef and chlorified chicken. Messi knows this, apparently.
You know what's even dumber? Inserting yourself into an exchange not knowing that at least one of the people involved is discussing and has been discussing events that took place outside the country of the perp's origin. Remember what I typed about travel and evolution? <Mister Rogers> Of course you do </M. Rogers> I'm not faulting the ones who never git outa th' holler, so to speak. They're a lost cause. I'm faulting the ones who bring th' holler to the city. If you had my moral standards, you'd be doing the same. But you don't. Nice backhanded try, though, since you're too much of a little bitch to quote me. You study my posts daily, grasshopper, but you them lose your notes while you're out roller skating, and that results in errors of judgement. Like the Trumpe O' The Lefte thread you started.
The foundation of the United States is not religious freedom as the American Mythology would have us believe, no it is that the White European Settler descendants will always be the top 3 classes and everyone else should be grateful they're allowed to exist. In the US - YTfolx either hate anyone darker than them, doesn't speak to them in clear, but submissive English, or fetishizes them...