Racism - Always and Forever

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by soccernutter, Jul 27, 2020.

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  1. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I was going to edit my post to say something to that effect, but, yes, it should move.
     
  2. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No.

    im talking about voting as a choice, not an action.
     
  3. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    There’s a lot of data there at the state Department of Education level. I’m familiar with the Missouri data. We have a standardized test (MAP) that disaggregates student scores by race, subsidized school lunch (financial) status and IEP. We also had a desegregation order in place that allowed non-white students attending predominantly non white schools and districts (usually poor and working class) to attend middle and upper middle class primarily white schools. When you control for economics, the black students did not perform appreciably better in the “good” districts than they did the “bad” districts. This goes for students living in those districts and students transported from their neighborhoods to those districts. NYT also had a really interesting study on black-white achievement gaps within districts and schools.

    Tying this back to racism: the gap is driven by “color blind” public policy that has a disparate impact on Black and Latino people. Most highly developed countries deal with this on some level, but the low position of our safety net here makes it more apparent.
     
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  4. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It goes hand in hand with looking at things in the negative.
    In the example I gave a few days ago about solving the water problem in Jackson, MS...it is easy to identify that there is a problem, and even possibly what the problem may be (at multiple points). It doesn't take an educated person to see those, but the more education somebody has the more they tend to "see" the solution, or "really" understand the problem. We see here, in this corner of BS, all the time regarding legal matters.

    Yes it does on both. Grade level is commonly associated with age. There is a good reason for that as learning is fairly uniform and a number of academic grown goals fall within that range, both grade and age. Now here I will admit that I had my relationship backward. I agree with @Chicago76 that grade level should be the measure, which would then allow kids of different ages to participate easier. But it should be clearly separated from age, and not be tied to all academic ability (as kids ability will vary widely as they learn).

    That is more or less what I said. But do you see the hole(s) in this argument?

    The funding via property taxes needs to be removed as it puts a burden on those home-owners. The poorer districts, they have a higher property tax percentage due to the tie to fund education.

    When one localized without federal-legal oversight, it very much hurts minorities. Brown v. Board was fought on that very idea. So was Santa Fe ISD v. Doe (which was fundamentally overturned by Kennedy v. Bremerton)It it goes much, much further. Think of the "bathroom bills" to keep trans boys->girls out of girls bathrooms. Those bills are political decisions, not education decisions, which are based on religion (usually Christianity). It is much the same reason sex education is not taught as often as it should be.

    So, let me give you an example of why this is a mis-leading argument.
    I had a student who was hanging out with his best friend. This student was a good guy, jovial, intelligent to the point of being able to teach others, and generally had a good head on his shoulders. But before he enrolled at my school, that day he was hanging with his best friend, they were on the corner waiting to cross the street. Somebody rolled up and shot his best friend in the head. My student was no more than 2 feet away.

    A year later, on the anniversary of the shooting, that student is in my class acting up. He is not angry, but is not following instructions I give him, and just causing a general problem. So I called the substance abuse counselor (we had one, and I wondered if the student was high). The counselor came down and pulled the student out of class for about 10 or 15 minutes. The student came back in and was able to settle down.

    At the end of the say, the counselor told me that he was troubled by my call to him as the student was very strongly believed to avoid alcohol and drugs, in a way that said he would remain sober (longer explanation as to why). So the counselor made it a point to come to my class and assess/talk to the student. In talking to the student, that was when the student told him what had happened. And nobody knew. Nobody.

    The point of this is that this student could have had issue with substance abuse, which is not something that is limited to schools. This student did have trauma caused by an event outside of school. The student lived in an area of higher violence. The student lived in an area which was higher poverty.
     
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  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Is there any evidence at all these right wing safe space schools will perform any better than "democrat controlled schools"?
     
  6. ElNaranja

    ElNaranja Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 16, 2017
    When was the last time a right wing policy was proven to be better?
     
  7. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Better for whom? People in general or the people who give them lots and lots of money?
     
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  8. marek

    marek Member+

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Jun 27, 2000
    Club:
    OSP Lechia Gdansk
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    tell me what strata of society is happy with their lives as a result of left wing policies
     
  9. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Retirees who have a safety net thanks to social security and medicare.
     
  10. marek

    marek Member+

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Jun 27, 2000
    Club:
    OSP Lechia Gdansk
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    all right, but apart from social security and Medicare what have the Democrats…. ;)

    yes, but for long and at what cost to our debt?
     
  11. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    There have never been left wing policies in these here United States, so we'll never know.

    I guess the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were "left wing policies" and, well, they helped the lives of millions of African Americans and improved the lives of everyone.

    If the Child Tax Credit extension was a "left wing policy," in cut childhood poverty in half.
     
  12. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    IT HAS ZERO EFFECT ON "OUR DEBT."

    The "effect" comes from the fact that every Presidential administration since Reagan has borrowed against the Social Security trust fund.

    THAT is where the "debt" originates and that is the only place it has for the last 40+ years. It is the government borrowing our money from us to pay governmental expenses and then WE have to pay it back with interest.

    Yes, for the first time, we are about to dip into the trust fund to pay out for retirees, but that could be EASILY remedied by raising or lifting the Social Security income cap.

    Social Security is completely self funded, as is Medicare.

    Now, if you want to talk about Medicaid and SSI, that would be a different story, but has made the lives of tens of millions of poor people well livable, which makes it worth it.
     
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  13. Dominican Lou

    Dominican Lou Member+

    Nov 27, 2004
    1936 Catalonia
    Probably.

    It doesn't solve the problem, though. With "school choice," parents move kids away from "bad schools" (the ones full of troubled, poor kids) and on to schools with less troubled kids.

    So yeah, the kids that moved will likely do better, but that does absolutely nothing for the troubled, poor kids. If anything, it makes their schools even worse because it creates brain drain. The few kids from stable enough homes with parents that care enough get moved away so only the really poor ones stay.
     
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  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Well yeah - because none of this is policy based - it's pure ideology

    It's all about ensuring dems/liberals can never have any say over education
     
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  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yes - it doesn't achieve any value for the tax payer, because you are in effect stripping out the "most profitable" part of the user base and leaving the other bit that is expensive to fix.

    This has been seen in multiple countries with plans for 'elite' 'charter' [insert word] schools - they just want to take the bit that can be monetised and is the best bit, and subsidise it with public money, while solving no problems
     
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  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Meanwhile in the world of right wing education

     
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  17. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    If I was a coach, the "red flag"* would also be flying. Why the ******** would I need to know this?




    *PHRASING!!!!!
     
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  18. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Uninspiring emails, unelectable ovaries, and drones.

    We built this shitty
    We built this shitty on rock and roooollllll
     
  19. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Makes total sense. How else are you supposed to know if one of them gets pregnant (and has an abortion)? I mean, the school wouldn't want to jeopardize the health of the fetus by allowing the athlete to continue competing. That would just be morally wrong, given the rights of the fetus trump female rights.
     
  20. Pønch

    Pønch Saprissista

    Aug 23, 2006
    Donde siempre
    The article is behind a paywall so I couldn't tell if this is the state forcing the schools to get this data, or if it's the schools themselves doing that on their own.

    This is extremely f*cked up either way, but if it's the state asking for this data then it's even worse IMO.
     
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  21. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Here you go!
    https://archive.ph/3EBxS
     
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  22. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    This sort of information has commonly been requested (optionally) as part of general health screening for sports physicals in many states and districts. I even remember this being on a state form for my sports physicals decades ago. Third party access to the information is the big problem.

    If I was in an abortion restricted state, I wouldn’t share that information for my daughter even if it was mandatory and confidential. With disclosure to unidentified parties? That’s criminal parenting in my book.
     
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  23. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Do you have something to hide?

    ;)
     
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  24. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It would mean your daughter didn't play.

    The clock ticks while this stuff gets decided. No way does a parent deny child these fleeting moments. I hope the young ladies are willing to give up their extracurricular activities for the right thing, but I doubt it. The numbers will be made up by scrub scabs if it even comes to a boycott.
     
  25. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't that a violation of Title IX?
     

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