He is a troll the likes of which you'll find among the retarded set of blind fanboys without any actual sense of rationality or reasoning on social media platforms with zero sense of objectivity, full of bias and low footballing understanding. It is very to difficult to determine who is more talented between these players . I personally will rank Cruyff as a better player obviously than either of them
Having said that. I think people are very narrowminded when it comes to the part "talent". I don't even know how can you even give verdict on talent. Say this or that player is the most talented . I can't see any proper definition of the word talent in football. Many people falls for aesthetics , highlight reels which looks smoother and will tell you a player who looks more aesthetically pleasing to be more talented. But it is not necessarily true. Many people are over emphasizes on dribbling while discussing talent i've noticed often . I could claim someone like Ben Arfa to be more talented than Platini for example if that's the case. Messi fanboys for instances will tell you he is much more talented than someone like cristiano ronaldo because of dribbling, but then will give excuse of his height when you'll point that he can't head. Here comes the question, Messi being blessed low centre of gravity will be considered talent , whereas someone's high leap won't be. what is the reason for that. Also various aspects of your game like passing, freekicks etc can be improved with years. You could find players who have done that . Then some players like Pele were born with a superior natural athleticism and physical strength (genetic freaks) will that be considered talent? And one more thing i'll add is that, the amount of footages available for players from different periods are not unequal. Many players have more of their best plays recorded , while some don't . Players of previous eras played with worse boot , muddy pitches, heavier balls that were far harder to control. These are actually big factors while seeing their plays. Not to mention the footage quality, camera angle etc. That's why it is very dishonest and disingineous, and signs of low iq to me to give verdict on players from different times just based on aesthetic pleasures/whose footages,compilations looks smoother and nicer.
@Doc_Exec Taking this to a more suited thread Most goals in a single season in Europe’s top 3 leagues Premier league La Liga Serie A Top 10 Cristiano Ronaldo 2014/15 48 goals in 35 appearances 1.38 goals per game Cristiano Ronaldo 2011/12 46 goals in 38 games 1.21 goals per game Cristiano Ronaldo 2010/11 40 goals in 34 appearances 1.17 goals per game Cristiano Ronaldo 2013/14 31 goals in 30 appearances 1.03 goals per game Cristiano Ronaldo 2012/13 34 goals in 34 appearances 1 goal per game Cristiano Ronaldo 2015/16 35 goals in 36 appearances 0.97 goals per game Cristiano Ronaldo 2017/18 26 goals in 27 appearances 0.96 goals per game Cristiano Ronaldo 2019/20 31 goals in 33 appearances 0.94 goals per game Ronaldo nazario 1996/97 34 goals in 37 appearances 0.91 goals per game Cristiano Ronaldo 2007/08 0.91 goals per game Most goals in a single champions league season Top 10 Cristiano Ronaldo 2013/14 17 Cristiano Ronaldo 2015/16 16 Cristiano Ronaldo 2017/18 15 Cristiano Ronaldo 2012/13 12 Cristiano Ronaldo 2016/17 12 Cristiano Ronaldo 2011/12 10 Cristiano Ronaldo 2014/15 10 Cristiano Ronaldo 2007/08 8 Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/10 7 Ronaldo nazario 2002/03 6 Times scored the most match winning goals in a single league campaign playing in Europe’s top 5 leagues Cristiano Ronaldo 10 times 2006/07 2007/08 2010/11 2011/12 2013/14 2014/15 2018/19 2019/20 2020/21 2021/22 Ronaldo nazario Once 2003/04 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/serie-a/gamewinners/wettbewerb/IT1/plus/?saison_id=ges https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/laliga/gamewinners/wettbewerb/ES1/plus/?saison_id=ges https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/gamewinners/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=ges Champions league goals vs Ajax(dominant team in Netherlands) 4 - Only Cristiano Ronaldo (7) has scored more Champions League goals against Ajax than Lionel Messi (4, with Makaay and Callejón). Smooth.— OptaJohan (@OptaJohan) October 21, 2014 Champions league goals vs Bayern Munich(dominant team in Germany) Champions league goals vs juventus(dominant team in Italy) 9 - Cristiano Ronaldo has now scored nine Champions League goals against Juventus - no player has scored more against a single opponent in the competition (also Cristiano Ronaldo vs Bayern Munich and Lionel Messi vs Arsenal). Nemesis. pic.twitter.com/bMNq4UH5sX— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) April 3, 2018 Ronaldo nazario? You can waste your time looking for this Cristiano played as a winger in a 4-4-2 for 5 seasons 2002/03 2003/04 2004/05 2005/06 2006/07 Ronaldo nazario has a head start in this ‘comparison’ if this is even a comparison to begin with If scoring 2 goals in 2 World Cup finals is ABOVE ALL OF THIS 2 World Cup finals in which R9 completed a phenomenal return of 1 dribble from 8 attempted dribbles combined then there is nothing more to discuss here frankly I honestly can’t be bothered explaining how ridiculous the claim is that cristiano is only better at headers You just have to ask yourself if stats like this even exist on PlayStation for R9 Most free-kicks scored in Premier League history:◎ 18 - David Beckham◉ 14 - James Ward-Prowse◎ 13 - Cristiano Ronaldo Prowsey wants that record. 🎯 pic.twitter.com/qYtHrrjAM7— Squawka (@Squawka) April 24, 2022 Left the PL at 24 years old and came back at 36 years old Only one player here is naturally right footed 23 - Since his UEFA Champions League debut in 2004-05, Lionel Messi has scored more goals from outside the box than any other player in the competition (23, one more than Cristiano Ronaldo). Limitless. pic.twitter.com/oBBISQfgEj— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) October 25, 2022 Lewandowski has 4 goals from outside the box in the CL for reference https://www.whoscored.com/Players/29400/History/Robert-Lewandowski There is one Ronaldo in history There is even only Ronaldo in the google search bar LOL To find info on the other one I had to type in his full name,nationality and blood type
Pre Madrid cristiano Ronaldo World soccer player of the decade 2000-2009 https://web.archive.org/web/20100516143714/http://www.worldsoccer.com/Awards/index.php He scored 650~ goals,won 4 champions leagues and won 4 ballon dors after 2009 Which version of Cristiano are we comparing to R9 @Doc_Exec
R9 did not play in the CL when he was fit; he played in the European Cup Winner's Cup and the UEFA Cup and won them both being the best player. Also, let's divide CR7's numbers by the goals scored in his era (and do the same for R9). Also, let's account for the time spent on the pitch. There's this data accounting for the time spent on the pitch: R9 scored over 0.7 non-penalty goals per 90 min in his career compared to CR7's 0.67. So, R9 has a better career scoring rate overall (despite all those gruesome injuries). In international matches, the non-penalty goals per 90 min values are: R9 = 0.63; CR7 = ~0.57 (he is still playing). Including assists, i.e., non-PK goals and assists per 90 min in international matches: R9 = 0.93, CR7 = ~0.75 (still playing). The difference becomes ridiculously large when knockout stages of major tournaments are considered; non-PK goals per 90 min: R9 = 0.92; CR7 = 0.16. Non-PK goals + assists per 90 min: R9 = 1.21; CR7 = 0.26. In big matches such as finals, R9 has 0.93 goals per 90 min, CR7 has 0.58. In terms of goals + assists per 90 min, R9 = 1.17, CR7 = 0.64. If we look at big matches such as the El Classico for example, R9 has 0.76 non-PK goals per 90 min vs CR7's 0.35. Goals + assists per 90 min: R9 = 0.96; CR7 = 0.45. There's the real Ronaldo and then there's the other two: Cristiano and Ronaldinho.
Comparing the career NPG rate of a winger turnt WF to that of a striker is bogus but if you want to live and die on this Hill Cristiano has played DOUBLE the career minutes of Ronaldo nazario and has 0.03 less no penalty goals per 90 and he did it playing in 3 different positions There are ways for Ronaldo Nazario to be ahead though but for how long is anyone’s guess Cristiano Ronaldo Left foot goals 156 Freekicks 60 Headers 142 = 348 goals scored https://www.messivsronaldo.app/ Ronaldo nazario all non penalty goals with all body parts = 365 goals This is a better comparison https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ronaldo/elfmetertore/spieler/3140
You have to divide Ronaldo Nazario's career before the injury in 2000 and after the injury Before the injury, Ronaldo Nazário was a completely different player. Something like Mpabbe, with several diagonal runs per match, but with more dribbling repertoire. After the injury, he became a more static goalscorer. Probably R9 before injury > CR7 (but not for much) >>> R9 after injury The Barcelona and Inter that Ronaldo played for were not as strong and unbalanced in relation to opponents as CR7's Real Madrid. Maybe the Real Madrid of the R9 was, but then it was at the time after the injury.
Statistically speaking, I don't think Xpg existed at the time of the young R9. I think it would be bigger than the CR7 prime. R9 scored unexpected goals in 96/97, like against Compostela or Valencia. So it's not just comparing goals, assists per game (which are evenly matched), but the opponents (Barcelona 96/97 was not as dominant as Real Madrid 2010/20) or the times the player created his own goal. When the young Ronaldo did a solo run and surpassed three (compostela, valencia) they were goals created by the player himself, goals without assistance, goals without collective help from the team. Young Ronaldo was better at creating his own goal than CR7 I think young R9 is a little above CR7, but R9 after the injuries, considerably below
And you have to divide between the all action Forward that was cristiano up until 2012 and the more goal centred forward he was after 2012 Yeah and Mbappé is not a better dribbler than cristiano in any tournament outside of the WC 2003/04 to 2011/12 Cristiano Ronaldo in the league+CL 1008 dribbles completed 29958 minutes played(333 matches played) 3.03 dribbles per 90 If we add to this his dribbles at Euro 2004 16 dribbles completed 420 mins played World Cup 2006 18 dribbles completed 484 minutes played Euro 2008 7 dribbles completed 180 minutes played World Cup 2010 7 dribbles completed 360 minutes played Euro 2012 5 dribbles completed 480 minutes played https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cristiano-ronaldo/nationalmannschaft/spieler/8198 The evolution of Cristiano Ronaldo’s dribbles completed at every international tournament (Opta) A thread pic.twitter.com/555jCpbRrh— Gasipo (@gasipo_opinions) July 24, 2022 Cristiano Ronaldo 2003/04 to 2011/12 in the league Champions league Major international tournaments(WC & Euro) 1061 dribbles completed 31882 minutes played(352.2 matches) 3.01 dribbles completed per 90 If you take Kylian Mbappes career average up until his latest match as per whoscored 797 dribbles completed 23781 minutes played(264.2 matches) 3.01 dribbles per 90 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/300713/History/Kylian-Mbappé Mbappes dribbling numbers are already declining this season from last BTW I say this factually not gleefully Ronaldo maintained that average of 3.01 dribbles per 90 over 88 more matches and he did it in leagues that are superior to ligue 1 in its current form(undoubtably) Unexpected goals? Zlatan ibrahimovic is usually spoken about as the striker with the most outstanding goals of any CF this generation He is literally NOWHERE NEAR to Cristiano or Messi in scoring those types of goals frequently and whoever is in fourth place(Suarez?)they didn’t even bother to mention him by name because they aren’t even in the same dimension We can filter all of Zlatan’s most difficult chances over his last 10 seasons of domestic football by selecting those that had an Expected Goals (xG) value of less than 0.05, or 5%. By doing this, we can isolate his shots that, on average, had a lower than 5% chance of going in. Ibrahimovic has registered 380 shots of this difficulty. “Zlatan ibrahimovic ability to score spectacular goals from difficult chances is evident. Ibra scored 22 goals from these situations, nearly nine more than Opta’s Expected Goals model would have expected him to. To put this into perspective, over the same period in the top five European leagues, only two players – Ronaldo (38) and Messi (34) – scored more goals from chances of this difficulty. These figures are even more remarkable given that the next highest ranked player for goals from this chance difficulty only scored seven” https://www.statsperform.com/resource/stats-performs-legends-series-part-two-zlatan-ibrahimovic/ Ibrahimovic is a player who’s ability to score spectacular efforts would stand out in any era (even in the 1990s)but he is not even close to cristiano in this regard Just because R9 Scored 2 speculator out of this world solo goals in October 1996 let’s not make it seem he was doing that week in or week out season in season out His typical goals were like the ones of batistuta maybe with more panache rounding the keeper but that’s it Hardly any lobs Hardly any Fks Hardly any long shots Hardly any headers in Europe He was really deadly at placing the ball in the bottom corner though I probably haven’t seen anyone better than him at doing that
One of the funniest and most disrespectul Debates in Football History. Cristiano Wipes the Floor with R9 in every Aspect except International Career where R9 had one of the best National Team of all Time and R9 at his Peak was A Better Dribbler than him while Cristiano has a Bigger Dribbling Catalogue than him because of his Consistency.The only People who rate R9 over Cristiano are either blinded by Nostalgia or just Hater of Cristiano.
Data from that time: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IGSs0exDrpqpAzWW48ZoHWazhp-8fmg5BbiFCtPzKME/edit?gid=0#gid=0 Perhaps not including blocked shots, but thats the data we had in the past. The new data from Sofascore is "wait..." NEW from everyone. You are not very bright, it seems. Anyway... more expected assists than expected goals if I remember well.
Same conversations happen in these threads as they did back in the mid 2000's. Sports fans going to sports fan
The thing is, now we have the correct data for Pelé's 70 WC and he hadn't more key passes than shots so your initial claim were debunked
Useless point, that's a real point I am going to make: Cristiano Ronaldo never had anything similar to that and never had more expected assists than expected goals in any tournament, period. In fact Cristiano Ronaldo is much more goal oriented than the other TOP10 OAT greats he usually compared with.
We don't have xA data before 2015 mate. Precisely after Ronaldo become more goal oriented since his injury in 2014
Tbf not even Messi had more xA than xG at any season since 14/15 according to https://understat.com even though he were more playmaking oriented since 2015 than he used to be playing with Xavi
Look at number of shots compared to key passes, don't fool yourself. Cristiano Ronaldo was always more goal oriented than anything else, thats why his low numbers of assists and pre-assistes compared with his team's goals. He was never Figo. He never had Figo accuracy in dribbling, playmaking, passing and ability to create high value chances. He was a ball carrer per stamina and pace, but always a goalscorer type of player.
Messi and Pelé also were more goal oriented. We aren't talking about someone like KDB or Özil. Most forwards will have more shots than key passes unless this forward have very low number of shots. Even Maradona in 86 had more shots than key passes. Your point is meaningless
There are Messi's, Maradona's and Pelé's; Cruyff's and Platini's and Cristiano Ronaldo's, Van Basten's, R9's, Romario's and Rummenigge's. Levels and levels.
I will make a thread about the ratio between shots and key passes one day to solve some questions around here.
I was curious just to see what a list with several players would look like and the shot to key pass ratio to see their game style/in which he is more focused. Of course, this is a very rudimentary statistic and ignores a lot of context, but apparently what it means is this: 0.00-0.49: more focused on finishing 0.50-0.99: an hybrid combination of playmaking and finishing 1.00+: focused on playmaking Key pass per shot ratio: Özil: 2.54 Tadic: 1.66 Ribery: 1.25 KDB: 1.20 Hazard: 1.16 Di Maria: 0.91 Neymar: 0.78 Mahrez: 0.76 Sterling: 0.73 Sané: 0.70 Firmino: 0.68 Vinícius Junior: 0.65 Dybala: 0.61 Mané: 0.60 Robben: 0.59 Griezmann: 0.58 Salah: 0.54 Son: 0.54 Benzema: 0.51 Gerard Moreno: 0.50 Bale: 0.50 Messi: 0.47 Gabriel Jesus: 0.45 Suarez: 0.45 Mbappé: 0.44 Ibrahimovic: 0.40 Van Persie: 0.39 Higuaín: 0.39 Morata: 0.35 Aguero: 0.32 Kane: 0.30 Lewandowski: 0.28 Cristiano Ronaldo: 0.26 Haaland: 0.25 Data from WhoScored/Opta
Cristiano Ronaldo is alongside all the strikers there, especially Haaland and Lewandowski, it should make you think. Yet they want to compare him with Pelé, Messi, Platini, Zico, Maradona, Di Stefano, Cruyff. That isn't even his archetype. The comparison between him and R9, Van Basten, Muller, Romário, Rummennigge, Eusebio isn't so outrageous as it looks. You could make that about World Cup only and it will likely not change.