R16 Analysis: ESP-POR - Baldassi (ARG)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2010: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 28, 2010.

  1. Loyalty

    Loyalty Member

    Jun 25, 2006
    Australia
    I liked the attitude of the ref in attempting to let this game flow naturally, rather than pull up pathetic non contact dives and even letting little "taps" go (players at this level should be able to handle a bump here and there).

    But the refs attitude did seem to be premediated and the longer the game went the more he seemed to let go that which seemed an obvious violation (major bump, rather than minor) and that took out of the game some of the better attacking players.
     
  2. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice application of Ask-Tell-Remove. :)

    He looked quite unfit, but always seemed to be on-the-spot, frequently having to adjust slightly to avoid the path of the ball. He didn't do it by sprinting; he did it by constant motion.

    He made good use of advantage, too, in addition to his (generally) good calls.

    That said C. Ronaldo couldn't buy a call. The referees have read his book and seen his act and the reviews are negative.

    Given that, it is unfortunate that the 89' send-off of Costa may have been the result of some embellishment. Baldassi was 20+ yards from that challenge, looking through several players. The AR certainly didn't call it as he can be seen running to the goal line.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ????

    Look, he's allowed to disagree. My rhetoric hasn't been lip service... if someone comes in here with an opinion and they want to analyze a performance, they are welcome to do so even if it falls way outside the accepted consensus.

    I disagree 100% with his opinions. But this is a perfect example of what we've said the forum is for. His first post seemed like it was trolling, but his subsequent posts have shown he just shares a different opinion. I deleted the personal stuff that started when the thread got off-track and that's all I plan to do.
     
  4. MrRC

    MrRC Member

    Jun 17, 2009
    This is about the only truly missed call that I saw in the entire match.
    I do agree that it was a foul and that Portugal was deprived of a whistle, but I would like to offer an explanation other than referee bias, which isn't likely.

    I believe that both the AR and the CR were straight-lined on the play. What I mean by that is that the officials were directly in line with the two players instead of being perpendicular to them. The perpendicular view would have allowed a view of the space between the two players and a look at the two handed push to the body. However, the positioning of officials left them each looking at the back of one of the players and unable to see the push. Specifically, the CR was looking at the back of the Spanish player and blocked from seeing his arms, while the AR could only see the body of the player from Portugal and similarly blocked from the arms of the fouling player. This sometimes happens when the two referees on one end of the pitch are working hard to box in the play between them.

    The only person who could have called this foul would have been the 4th Official. He would have had a decent angle to observe the shove and could have used the communication system to alert the CR, but that would depend upon what their pregame discussion was.
     
  5. v00d00daddy

    v00d00daddy Member

    May 22, 2007
    Toronto
    I see your point but I don't agree with it. Even if we assume that neither the CR or the AR could see the push...they both certainly saw the Spanish defender turn his back on the ball when it was still in flight and never looked back at it. So....if there is any contact at all it has to be seen as a foul. The defender made zero attempt to play the ball and that could be seen by anyone in the entire stadium.

    Also...I find it a bit strange that FIFA would find it permissable to have an Argentinian officiating crew with Spain playing. A little too close for comfort imo.

    What can you do though. Another game where missed calls and phantom calls oveshadow the game itself.
     
  6. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Spain's close to Argentina now? I don't understand.
     
  7. Iforgotwhat8wasfor

    Jun 28, 2007
    I watched the push on Ronaldo quite closely on the replay. It seemed clear to me that he got pushed then completely flopped. I thought it was a good non-call. Be that as it may, it's funny (as in peculiar) that we have rants and rants about diving, then when a referee does appear to take a stand, we have rants and rants...
     
  8. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    Well duh, they both speak Spanish!! (dripping with sarcasm)

    I really do love this guy (Baldassi). He actually smiles, seems to be really at ease out there, and seems to catch everything important that is going on. I do love how he keeps his cards in his little wallet...reminds me of what younger referees typically do. I really hope to see him again.
     
  9. v00d00daddy

    v00d00daddy Member

    May 22, 2007
    Toronto
    No they're not close..but they are both latin/spanish ish...if you know what I mean.
     
  10. v00d00daddy

    v00d00daddy Member

    May 22, 2007
    Toronto
    You saw the red card near the end of the game right?

    He "caught" what he thought was something important and was fooled by a flopping Spanish player. The same flopping he did so well (dripping with sarcasm) in catching when Ronaldo was legitimately being fouled.
     
  11. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    I always change how I keep my cards. Sometimes like for some high school games I keep them in my wallet. Other times I have them out in the pockets...sometimes they're write onable other times they're not and I use the wallet.

    I like how he does it, he just had a presence about him that show'd control.
     
  12. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Looked like an elbow to the head to me. I haven't seen any conclusive evidence to prove otherwise.
     
  13. vhatever

    vhatever Red Card

    Jun 16, 2010
    USA
    Please tell me my sarcasm meter is broken.
     
  14. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So would you have the same problem if an American say refereed the England against Germany in the round of eight?
     
  15. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was an excellent call on the send off. If you have the game on tape watch for 89:09. It's a view of the entire penalty area. You can see the Portuguese player Costa, cock his left elbow and deliver a shot that catches Capdevilla.
     
  16. Another NH Ref

    Another NH Ref BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 29, 2008
    Southern NH
    I'm in London this week so I don't have access to my DVR (yes, I know about Slingbox and no I don't have one). It does mean, however, that I got to watch the game on BBC. They weren't sure about the elbow either, at first, but eventually we got to see a replay that shows it was well-earned and that Baldassi was well-positioned to see it. Capdevilla's amateur theatrics, while distasteful, had nothing to do with the call.

    (I posted this before I saw Alberto's post that immediately precedes it. The view to which Alberto refers is the same view the BBC eventually showed us. Sorry, v00d00, but I think there's nothing phantom about that send-off.)
     
  17. Another NH Ref

    Another NH Ref BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 29, 2008
    Southern NH
    While I think he's mistaken in saying that there was anything horrendous about the officiating in this game, his point is well-taken and it is exactly the same one we were making about Stark having the England-Slovenia game. The winner of this match has a good chance of playing Argentina in the semifinals.
     
  18. o5iiawah

    o5iiawah Member

    Oct 31, 2008
    Does anyone else think that the player who flicked it on to Villa came from an offside position to play the pass? I think he is the one who is offside first. i caught it as play happened and all the closeup shots on ESPN showed the camera behind villa as he finished. if anyone has a DVR shot of the ball being played to (I think #13 on spain) who flicked the pass to villa, i'd like to see it.
     
  19. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Yeah but he also said he was biased against Portugal. If you wanted Argentina to win I'd suggest having Portugal win rather than Spain.
     
  20. CanadaFTW

    CanadaFTW Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    He is in an offside position for a period of time before the ball is played to him, but is JUST onside when it is, so that is a good call. This play really had 2 extremely tight offside decisions within 2 seconds...
     
  21. o5iiawah

    o5iiawah Member

    Oct 31, 2008
    The game was so much easier as a spectator. I find myself tracking 2lds and observing the ref's diagonal almost as much as I do the buildup of play. Is it strange that instead of following the ball into the goal with my eyes, I look at the ar? LOL
     
  22. Chiller15J

    Chiller15J New Member

    Apr 9, 2007
    Chicago Area
    Is there a replay that shows the elbow to the face for the send off? All I'm seeing are replays that start too late to catch it happening.

    A side note. I can't believe how crazy people can be (in the thread for the game) and think the reffs are all horrible and think they are out to get their team.
     
  23. bothways

    bothways Member

    Jun 27, 2009
    I guess I can understand why some people think he did a bad job, but this was one of the few games that I did not push the fast forward button on the dvr. And here is why
    a. the players respected his calls. In about the 80 minute puyol cleanly tackles the left winger close to the 18 yard box. the winger gets up and they exchange hugs. It looked like a hard tackle in real time, but the ref got it right.

    b. not once was there a player in his face or wagging the finger in his face or in his chest(ala lannoy and lucio from brazil)

    c. he let them play like men and they respected that.

    d. ronaldo dives a lot and unfortunately for players like that in games, referees will be aware of that. If he stops diving, then he will get the benefit of the doubt!!!!

    e. He was so fluid and spot on when he called fouls. Thereby gaining the respect of the players

    f. On the red card- could have escalated into a brawl, but was handled really well by the players themselves.

    g. costa was itching for a fight. the only thing i think baldassi could have done is when costa twice had his arm around villa's upper chest in an aggressive manner on 2 fouls- perhaps a talking to on that one?

    h. He did a bloody great job.I just sat there and watched him and and hoped he would get the final.
     
  24. Spaceball

    Spaceball Member

    Jun 15, 2004
    Everyone keeps talking about the replays. I think the key footage is the live feed. The incident happens at 88:14. Watch that moment. First, look at the intersection of the D and watch the Portugal player and the Spanish player. It is clear the Portuguese player lead with an elbow.

    Then, rewind and watch Baldassi. He is looking DIRECTLY at the play. He then whistles immediately ad is pulling his book out as he heads in.

    For me, this is the bed shot of the entire incident...even better than the final replay an much better than the first couple that start after the elbow is down.

    I think there is no doubt he saw it and reacted immediately (regardless of the pathetic exaggeration) with a decision in which he showed complete confidence.
     
  25. Kqql

    Kqql Member

    Sep 22, 2003
    I think Capdevila did a good job selling the alleged elbow to the ref...
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJPiyKbR_ew"]YouTube- Ricardo Costa gets Red Card for Nothing[/ame]
     

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