And what's the call on asking Tevez whether he touched it or not like many cricket umpires do or changing decision based on Tevez Claiming the goal? Besides i doubt that because of public opinion if the referee does that and uses technology his career will be over. He will be probably hyped by the media and almost force FIFA'S HAND to not do anything other in that regard. Beisdes Rossetti is 43. To be hailed as a worldwide martyr would be better than refereeing for 1 and a half year.
Did I say anything about the big screen in Germany? NO, the 4th saw it on replay from where he was not on the big screen.
Pursuant to the big screen replay debate, I did a little digging. Ok, fair enough. So I googled "Guidelines for the Use of Giant Screens at FIFA Matches." I got... And there it's a dead-end. It doesn't seem that the "Guidelines for the Use of Giant Screens at FIFA Matches" are anywhere to be found on the web.
Let's remember that no one but Raymond Domenech and other French officials has ever claimed this. You can claim cover-up by FIFA if you want, but I'm not sure how you can be so sure of yourself either way.
Which is totally irrelevant, since the ball went from Messi to keeper and back to Messi, at which point the original offside position expired. The second call was incorrect, but not the lack of a call in the first instance you cite.
I felt there should have been a card on the first foul of Messi. He got clattered pretty good and the ref called the player over and gave him the no mas signal. Within a minute and Argentine took out a Mexican player. In my opinion a payback. With these 2 teams reputation, it could have turned into a hack fest. Kudos to Mexico. I've seen them get real dirty when they've been hosed. Handlers did a good job keeping players away from the AR after the match. That could have been ugly.
I agree with this. There really is no excuse for Rosetti. It's another reason why I think Busacca might be in the dog house due to his decision in the group stage. We look at some of these decisions as referees and see the easy excuse. We know that it is often impossible to overrule an assistant when we are the referee because, quite frankly, we've given offside decisions as ARs that look very bad, but we know in our gut are right. I'm talking about the instances where a defender pulls the moment the ball is played while an attacker sprints... to the CR, the attacker looks like he had to be offside, by 5+ yards. But when you're the AR, you know he wasn't. So overruling ARs is usually out of the question. But there's something different about the top levels. They have the microphone system for a reason. If this call was blown because the AR thought Tevez didn't touch it, then it was easily fixable (just like the non-offside call for Busacca's crew). I mean, there shouldn't even be a debate. Rosetti had to have seen the touch. Even if he didn't, he saw Tevez celebrate and claim the goal. So he knew there was a touch. It just came down to confirming that Tevez was in an offside position with the AR. Maybe the AR had a total brain freeze and thought Tevez was on--that's the only logical explanation here if Rosetti did his job. And, even then, once the replay is shown... Well, at that point, everyone knew there was a hint of offside. Rosetti knew it seemed offside. The AR was obviously confused. And Mexico was irate. If the replay happened to be shown at the same time the AR magically remembered what happened... well, would anyone be complaining right now? The Italian crew had every possibility to make sure justice was done. And, either due to incompetence, a lack of courage, or an overzealous attempt to stringently follow FIFA guidelines, they failed.
Maybe we should all get into the habit of sprinting into the penalty area EVERY TIME a shot is taken. And I mean EVERY TIME.
Disagree. What happens more often? A go/no-goal situation or a shot rebounding off the GK/post and an offside decision needing to be made. The later happens at least 50 times more often.
Well, I'm sure it's already been said, but now I've seen the replay the assistant was horribly out of position. Like, several metres. You can see in his discussions with Rosetti that he's completely unsure what's going on. His career is clearly over. It's tough to sit here and say it, but I really think that when Rosetti was confronted with a useless assistant in that situation he should have gone with disallowing it. Very, very tough decision, but one he had to make. It was a moment of truth. Who knows what was going through his head - maybe the disallowed goal from ENG-GER was playing on his mind and he was afraid of being the second referee to disallow a legitimate goal. This seems far worse though. I'm not even Mexican and I'm gutted by this decision.
I don't know if this has been discussed before (didn't bother to search). Given the speed a match is played nowadays (players pace, ball movement) is it possible for a human referee to guarantee fairness? I think the answer is no. Magicians know this very well. There's a limit on what the brain can perceive when movement is involved.. it's a well known and studied field.. and I think most sports are way above that limit and that's why technology should be used. One thing I hope to see before I die is Mexico holding the trophy. The next thing on that list is for FIFA to go all the way to help referees with technology. Yes, I'm an idealist.
Something just dawned on me. Could this be an example of a situation where the team-system hurts greatly, rather than helps? What I mean is... Rosetti might be much more willing to overrule some AR from Scotland or Paraguay or India that he only met a month ago and has never worked a game with as opposed to overruling a guy he's known for 5+ years and has worked every single match with for the past 2+. Something to think about.
I believe that there is a detailed thread on this from a couple of years ago in the main Referee forum. That wasn't the issue here however. It was unfortunately nothing more than a very serious, and inexcusable, mistake.
I'm hoping that the assistant was honest with Rosetti and said "look, I was several metres out of position, I think he was not offside but I cannot make this call accurately". If he did that, its less of an overrule - Rosetti then has to assume responsibility for calling it how he sees it, as distateful as that is. IMO that is not trusting an assistant, that's abdicating responsibility. If the asssistant misrepresented the situation to Rosetti, leading Rosetti to rely on that, then that would be unforgivable.
I think the goal wrongly disallowed by an incorrect call by an AR on the Dempsey goal was a pretty easy one too, as offside calls go. The ball didn't come from way upfield or anything and the AR wasn't trying to make the call while running down the line. And there's nothing that should make today's call a tough call either. It may have become one since he was out of position--following the goalie around or something--but it should be routine for an AR at this level. And yet they happen with some regularity. Since these shouldn't happen at this level, and yet they do, and they spoil matches....it screams for replay. As was already pointed out, it took way longer and was far more disruptive to the game to have the conference and deal with both the teams crowding around and still get it wrong than it would have taken for a replay official in a booth to tell them they got it wrong. The situation in the England match was clearly preventable by use of technology or even goal line official. Neither match needed to be tarnished and changed the way they were. I don't understand why people think these sort of big mistakes make soccer better. What I'll remember about the match isn't Teves' goal or Hernandez' goal--it'll be how Mexico got shafted and changed what was until that point a great, competitive game into something tainted.
Because I have zero faith in an organization that is so shady in it's dealings. See money and ticketing issues of the past. A child that cheats on test does more than just that, which is wrong.
It just tarnishes the whole tournament because people begin to view winning the tourney as 33% Talent, 33% Luck, and 33% Not getting Screwed over by the Refs. It just pisses me off to no end when I see preventable mistakes taint matches. I like to see teams fairly get eliminated, and not have to play the if and but game as to whether what would have happened if the refs hadn't messed it up.
Not that it changes the situation nor the decision, but has anyone else noticed that the offside line drawn in the screenshot in post #44 is in the wrong place? The 2LD is the upfield player! I guess they always focus in on the last outfield player. Still a really bad call, and quite inexplicable. I agree, Rosetti is probably sunk, along with Larrionda, both due to AR errors.
Yeah and that's really upsetting. Ya know in the US we have some of the best ARs in the world, but we have bad CRs. Why do we have to have teams from countries? Why do we have to put bad ARs with good CRs or vice versa?
So many experts here and around the world. Did anyone catch the offside while it was live? The TV crew did not notice until the replay was shown. Yes, it was a blown call. The question is why. Easy to pontificate and say the AR was not in position. But it was a busted play. Tevez charges towards the goal, the keeper charges towards him, the ball bounces off the keeper and the next thing is that Messi sends back the rebound. Tevez momentum brought him forward. Unfortunately, the same did not happen to the AR. Probably stopped at the point when the initial shot went off and headed back towards Messi. Probably what most of us would have done. It was a mistake, one that can easily be done. As for the conference between Rosetti and the AR, if neither could make a clear call, they can't change things.
All I can say is something looked fishy. I was looking at the computer I think and looked over at the TV when the pbp guy raises his voice. I was pretty sure he was offside. I actually though there might have been one Mexican between him and the goal line and thought we had another RSA/MEX situation, but it turns out there was no one.