[R] WCQ - Stage 2

Discussion in 'Oceania' started by ZeekLTK, May 20, 2004.

  1. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    Hey, hey, hey - this was all Greg Chappell's fault, dont blame the whole country. I'd say most cricket fans over here were almost as upset as the Kiwis.

    Sledging's been going around a long time, and I don't really know who started it. Certainly Australia's taken it to new extremes in the past 10 years or so, and nobody's very proud of that. When an Aussie player is caught sledging, he gets slammed worst in the domestic press. I think it's partly indicative of the attitude of a couple of influential players in the team - hopefully these things are cyclic.

    I think the attitudes of Australia and New Zealand towards sportsmanship are pretty similar.
     
  2. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Opinion: All Whites failed because NZS took eye off the ball

    Coach Mick Waitt shouldn't be the sole scapegoat for the All Whites' abysmal World Cup exit. Chief executive Bill MacGowan and the New Zealand Soccer board should at least have the decency to offer their own resignations.

    The upset in Adelaide is the greatest own goal in Kiwi soccer history, but it cannot be blamed totally on Waitt and his players.

    It is a systemic failure, rather than a one-off aberration, and NZS cannot say it wasn't warned.

    For the past five years the NZS mantra has been "World Cup Finals 2006". Former board chairman Kevin Stratful once called it "the big, hairy goal" at a meeting of soccer insiders in Christchurch.

    NZS talked big but failed to deliver a meaningful international programme for Waitt and his All Whites.

    MacGowan promised much after returning to the NZS helm in 2000 as one of New Zealand sport's leading administrators. He had headed the organising team which successfully staged the 1999 under-17 Fifa world soccer championships. As chief executive of the Warriors, he saved the rugby league franchise from the brink of financial ruin.

    Good things have happened on his NZS watch. Soccer is now New Zealand's leading junior participation sport. NZS has landed a major sponsorship deal with Nike, reputed to be worth $2 million, and a new international player development programme (IPDP) for juniors has been introduced. National under-15 teams have performed well at recent tournaments in Italy and Malaysia.

    But the All Whites are still soccer's shop window and NZS is guilty of abject neglect of its showpiece team.

    How can an organisation claim to be doing its job when its national side has not played since October? How could NZS allow the All Whites – featuring 13 players with fewer than 10 caps – to go to Adelaide without any warm-up games? Especially when Australia had played World Cup semi-finalists Turkey and the Pacific Island nations had been involved in qualifying tournaments.

    NZS tried to talk to Turkey, but could not stump up the cash. Why didn't they then arrange alternative opposition?

    NZS carps about the cost of assembling the All Whites with most players based in Europe or the United States. But, how difficult would it have been to get a series of games in Europe against sides wanting match-play before the European championships?

    Sure, all the players might not have been available due to club commitments. But a significant nucleus would have been.

    MacGowan talks about a tri-nations against Australia and South Africa sometime in the future. Yet now he is saying that the All Whites might not play for two years and funding will be channelled into the under-20 and under-23 programmes. How will kiwi kids develop their own heroes when the national side never plays?

    There are no excuses for the All Whites losing 4-2 to Vanuatu.

    But why haven't we played the Solomon Islands, Fiji or Vanuatu regularly outside Fifa tournaments to become more conversant with their playing style?

    More, importantly, why hasn't NZS organised more matches within the Asian region, where teams like South Korea and Japan are now making their mark on the world stage?

    Given the changing demographics of Auckland, would NZS have gone broke bringing China or Korea here for a series.

    The All Whites have played just four games at home against non-Oceania nations since 1996 – Chile and Korea in 1998 and the Koreans again in a two-test series in 2000. Club teams on holiday, like Dunfermline Athletic, don't count.

    Other, so-called second-tier sports in New Zealand, such as hockey, basketball and softball, seem to be able to lure overseas teams here much easier than soccer – the world's number one code.

    New Zealand doesn't even go to Asian football tournaments, like Merderka in Malaysia, any more.

    Why hasn't NZS used Wynton Rufer's contacts, internationally? The Oceania player of the century can be a difficult character, but he has a passion for the game, is well-connected in Europe and can open doors closed to administrators.

    The writing has been on the wall for the All Whites for almost a decade. Former Scotland goalkeeper Bobby Clark quit as All Whites coach in 1995 in frustration because the national body's parlous financial situation made it difficult to organise an international programme.

    New Zealand's 1982 World Cup squad captain Steve Sumner warned two years ago that NZS had to find more games for the All Whites if they were ever to make the World Cup finals again.

    Questions must also be asked over the composition of the All Whites squad. Since when has the United States college system been a stepping stone to international football? Why were three US college players included in the All Whites squad ahead of Europe-based professionals like Chris Bouckenooghe and Allan Pearce?

    Why, with All Whites skipper Ryan Nelsen under an injury cloud, did Waitt not plump for more experience, such as Kingz stalwart Harry Ngata?

    Why was Michael Utting – still New Zealand's best goalkeeper – omitted?

    Why did NZS not arrange an interim national league this winter to ensure players like Steven Old and Rupesh Puna were playing at a level above the park football standard of the federation leagues?

    It's inevitable that Waitt will go as All Whites coach. His assistant, Ricki Herbert, should follow. New Zealand could benefit from having an overseas coach – perhaps from the continent or South America – who has played or coached at the highest international level.

    But other roles should also be held up to scrutiny. Paul Smalley – who, like Waitt, played professionally at Notts County – has been New Zealand's director of football since November 2002. He's also been attached to the coaching staff of most national teams at tournaments since then.

    Since the end of 2002 New Zealand has failed to make the finals of the Oceania under-17, under-20 and senior tournaments, and only scraped into the final of the Olympic qualifiers after a controversial late winner against Vanuatu. New Zealand never had any difficulty making these finals in the past.

    Why are all our age-group sides, at Smalley's insistence, committed to playing a 4-3-3 (four defenders-three midfielders-three strikers) system? Shouldn't international players be adept at playing in, and against, any formation?

    Smalley has done an admirable job as NZ's technical director and mastermind of the IPDP programme. He should be restricted to that role and should certainly not be attached to the senior national team.

    The World Cup dream is gone, but NZS must not give up on the All Whites.

    MacGowan must stick to his knitting – governance of the game and logistics and leave the international programme to be run by people who understand it better.

    The board must set up a think-tank involving people like Rufer, Sumner, former All Whites coaches such as Kevin Fallon and Allan Jones and ex-internationals like Ceri Evans and Danny Hay. They should take advice from them on the best way to resurrect the All Whites' soccer reputation. It has never been lower.

    Crowdie
     
  3. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    NZ Soccer Told To Front Up

    The fallout continues over New Zealand's catastrophic exit from Confederation's Cup and World Cup soccer qualifying.

    The All Whites are on their way home from Adelaide after missing the cut for the next stage of the Oceania Nations Cup.

    Australia and the Solomon Islands are through, after the All Whites stumbled with a 4-2 loss to Vanuatu.

    Former coach Kevin Fallon says it is a complete disaster, the All Whites did not prepare well enough and it was a sheer incompetent performance.

    Fallon says it is not just coach Mick Waitt's fault - the entire New Zealand soccer organisation and players are also responsible.

    He has urged New Zealand Soccer to forget about long-term plans and concentrate on the now.

    He says players and administrators seem to have forgotten the next game is always paramount.

    Fallon says the best players were not picked and part-timers have taken their place.

    He says professionals overseas have either been discarded or put on the bench.

    Former international Harry Ngata says he cannot believe the team went into the tournament cold.

    Ngata says to select several new young players and expect them to front in all games is unbelievable.

    He says administrators need to take responsibility for the poor preparation.

    Off-contract coach Mick Waitt meets with soccer officials on Tuesday to sort out future plans.

    Crowdie
     
  4. Auxodium

    Auxodium New Member

    Apr 11, 2003
    Perth, Australia
    Re: NZ Soccer Told To Front Up

    Look the way New Zealand was bungled out of the OFC Cup was a testimate that they need to play often. I saw an MLS game and the commentator said was was great New Zealand don't play often as Ryan Nelsen can concentrate on DC United.

    NZ and Aus need more games.

    My proposal a few threads ago had plans for a 4 nation tounament that invited 2 nations and NZ or have 6 teams and have NZ, Aust and 4 others like Japan, England, Venezuela, USA. that would be a cracking competition and NZ and Australia would play against tough opposition and high on the FIFA ladder.
     
  5. Andy TAUS

    Andy TAUS Member

    Jan 31, 2004
    Sydney, AUS
    GF,

    Were you being misquoted on another thread on the South American board here (something to do with games) saying that AUS deliberately threw the game with the Solomon Islands in order to sink the Kiwis ???

    I don't think AUS tanked the game but were caught out with a light-weight team and the sending off of Patrick Kisnorbo at a critical stage (2-1 up) was the final straw.

    What say you ???

    Andy T.
     
  6. Auxodium

    Auxodium New Member

    Apr 11, 2003
    Perth, Australia
    Initially it seemed that way and i was annoyed that we 'lowered our colours' but i say we let ourselves down in that game.

    funny how the press here in oz didn't mention the send off. i never knew that. damn press.

    but we need games, games, games! :D
     
  7. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Waitt was set up to fail, says All Whites skipper

    Bewildered All Whites captain Ryan Nelsen has leapt to the defence of embattled coach Mick Waitt, saying the Englishman was set up to fail at this month's Oceania Nations Cup in Adelaide.

    The normally mild-mannered United States-based defender has threatened to quit international football unless New Zealand Soccer gets to the root of the "negativity" that has filtered through the entire All Whites camp. Veteran striker Vaughan Coveny has also given Waitt his backing.

    Nelsen said the national body was "arrogant" to think the All Whites could breeze through the dual World Cup-Confederations Cup qualifier without any warmup games.

    He believes the entire All Whites management team should be held accountable, not just Waitt, who will face NZ Soccer chief executive Bill MacGowan and director of football Paul Smalley at a debriefing in Auckland today.

    Waitt wants a shot at guiding the All Whites out of soccer's international wilderness but is not expected to be offered a new contract.

    "I definitely support Mick," Nelsen said. "He was put in a situation no head coach should be put in. He was left alone in his management. I feel very sorry for him."

    There has being growing disquiet at an apparent division in the All Whites management since the Nations Cup debacle, when a humiliating 4-2 loss to Vanuatu shattered New Zealand's 2006 World Cup dream.

    Though he would not name names, Nelsen agreed the players had lost faith in several management staff.

    "It'll be tough for me to go back, with NZ Soccer's attitude . . . I don't think we're going in the right direction," he said.

    "It's tough, when a club is paying you, to go back when some (All Whites) management don't even respect you and are not even talking to you, especially when it's a huge step down in level . . . it's disheartening."

    Nelsen wished Wellingtonian Waitt had stood up for himself before the tournament, where he had Ricki Herbert as his assistant coach, Steve Williamson as his manager and Smalley taking an "observation" role.

    Several sources have told The Dominion Post that Waitt had to fight to include experienced US-based All Whites Simon Elliott and Duncan Oughton in his 23-man squad.

    Waitt has since been criticised for selecting 12 members of the unsuccessful New Zealand Olympic (under-23) team for Adelaide ahead of seasoned internationals such as Chris Jackson, Harry Ngata and Michael Utting.

    Nelsen has pleaded with NZ Soccer not to downgrade the All Whites in favour of beefing up national under-20 and under-23 campaigns with an eye to re-emerging at senior international level for the 2010 World Cup qualifiers.

    "I don't even know if I'll be around the All Whites again at the tender age of 26 and that's sad.

    "There are a lot of 25 to 30-year-olds who have still got three or four years in their careers easily . . . they're taking a huge gamble trying to progress their younger guys," Nelsen said.

    "In saying all this, Mick knew what was wrong and what was right. If he was not happy he should have corrected it, he should have done something about it.

    "Maybe this is the wakeup call we deserved. I think we underestimated the island nations, but not even Australia can do that now, as you saw in their 2-2 draw with the Solomons.

    "We've got to look at what went wrong and what is (still) going wrong."

    Crowdie
     
  8. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Wait Almost Over For Waitt

    D-day for All Whites soccer coach Mick Waitt.

    Waitt meets with New Zealand soccer chiefs on Tuesday morning for a "please explain" session as the fallout continues over the early ousting from the Confederations Cup and World Cup, especially over the 4-2 loss to Vanuatu.

    Waitt says he would love to continue in the role but describes his chances as tepid at best, and with such a bad run of results at the recent tournament in Adelaide, it is time to debrief and work out where they go from here.

    The writing is on the wall but Waitt says he still wants to front with some new initiatives as he has a few ideas on improvements for the team.

    He says the agenda looks fairly ominous, but the decision is out of his hands.

    Crowdie
     
  9. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Waitt's reign over

    Mick Waitt's reign as All Whites soccer coach has ended.

    New Zealand Soccer (NZS) today confirmed Waitt's contract had been allowed to lapse.

    NZS stressed in a statement that Waitt, in the head coach's job since 2002, had not been dismissed.

    "Mick Waitt has not been dismissed, the term of his contract was always subject to the 2006 World Cup campaign ending," NZS said after Waitt met chief executive Bill MacGowan and director of football Paul Smalley in Auckland today.

    New Zealand were eliminated from the qualification stage of the World Cup at the Oceania Nations Cup in Adelaide last month when a shock 2-4 loss to lowly Vanuatu saw them finish third, behind Australia and the Solomon Islands.

    NZS said today no coaching appointment would be made until a job description had been finalised and approved by the NZS board, who next meet on July 23.

    MacGowan has said the All Whites' failure in Adelaide could lead to the national side not playing for a couple of years.

    He acknowledged Waitt's service during his tenure as assistant coach and latterly as head coach of the All Whites.

    MacGowan said the time was right to review the job description of head coach.

    "Mick has been involved through a hugely successful time for the All Whites with two Nations Cup victories and has seen the emergence of a new era of players following our appearance in France last year.

    "The role of head coach is evolving, however, and with an ever increasing number of players overseas, NZS must carefully consider how best to allow the role and person to in turn get the best from the players.

    "The results in Adelaide will clearly effect our international activity in the short term, again impacting on the role of head coach and the responsibilities that will go with the job."

    And from the NZ Soccer website:

    New Zealand Soccer concluded a debrief of the 2004 Nations Cup and World Cup qualfying tournament at a meeting in Auckland today.

    As a part of that process the role of Head Coach Mick Waitt was evaluated and reviewed with NZS CEO Bill MacGowan and NZS Director of Football Paul Smalley.

    That evaluation took place in the context of a thorough review of the OFC Nations Cup / World Cup qualifying campaign and will be followed up by a presentation to the Board of NZS future international football planning meeting on the 23rd June.

    In accordance with his contract, Mick Waitt's position as Head Coach lapsed one week following NZ's elimination from the 2006 World Cup. Mick Waitt has not been dismissed, the term of his contract was always subject to the 2006 WC campaign ending.

    No appointment will be made with regards the position of National Team Head
    Coach until the job description has been finalised in detail and approved by the Board. That approval will be made in the context of future international
    activity . In keeping with NZS policy regarding all international coaching
    appointments the job will be advertised at that time.

    Further comment with regards the role of National Team Head Coach will be made following the meeting of the Board of NZS on June 23rd in Auckland.

    Crowdie
     
  10. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Radio Sport's Phil Gifford talking to New Zealand Soccer CEO Bill MacGowan about the contract of All Whites coach Mick Waitt not being renewed - http://xtramsn.co.nz/musicandvideo/0,,6081-3434086-25,00.html

    New Zealand Soccer boss Bill MacGowan says they are changing the job description before advertising the post. MacGowan says once they have made changes Waitt needs to see if he still wants the job. He says that if that is the case they will welcome his application. Bill MacGowan says the two key issues they will consider are aligning the role with the under 23 position and having the coach overseas more to see players in action for their clubs.

    Crowdie
     
  11. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Captain's Comments Upset NZ Soccer

    New Zealand Soccer is upset at some scathing comments made by All Whites captain Ryan Nelsen.

    Nelsen has threatened to quit international football, while labelling the national body arrogant and calling management staff negative in the wake of the disastrous Nations Cup campaign.

    The failed Adelaide bid has already cost coach Mick Waitt his job.

    New Zealand Soccer boss Bill MacGowan says he is disappointed in Nelsen, with the situation needing to be rectified.

    MacGowan says it is important international players are happy coming from overseas to play for the national team and they do whatever they can to make sure that happens.

    He says he will be speaking with Ryan Nelsen about the matter over the next few days.

    Crowdie
     
  12. Auxodium

    Auxodium New Member

    Apr 11, 2003
    Perth, Australia
    Re: Captain's Comments Upset NZ Soccer

    yeah well that is what you get when NZ don't play often and fail in games.
     
  13. Aharon6

    Aharon6 New Member

    Jun 12, 2004
    Re: Captain's Comments Upset NZ Soccer

    Hello Mr Crowdie from Auckland,
    excuse me if I write to You, I am from Europe, Italy and I like New Zealand, not Australia, I would like to know the level of the soccer (football) in New Zealand. I hope that the New Zealand team of Soccer can become strong like the All Black in rugby. We have Kirwan as coach of Rugby Nation in Italy, and I think that is correct search a person from the nation where one sport is more good, and in rugby New Zealand is the best.
    Bye I wait for Your answer


     
  14. Auxodium

    Auxodium New Member

    Apr 11, 2003
    Perth, Australia
    Re: Captain's Comments Upset NZ Soccer

    don't like Australia hey? lol

    they will not become as 'strong as the all blacks' for MANY, MANY, MANY years."i like europe but not italy" is quite a silly statement for me to make just the same as what you stated.

    The level of football in New Zealand is very that they have to tag along with Australia in a league that is still not strong enough to support itself by Australians. But i do see that NZ and Australian football partnership is required in the future but not just yet.
     
  15. Aharon6

    Aharon6 New Member

    Jun 12, 2004
    Re: Captain's Comments Upset NZ Soccer

    I told that I do not like Australia because I visited this nation, and sincerely I did not like this. I visited New Zealand and I like this very much, special Auckland, Wellington, and then the part of Tawa.
    I always see Rugby games of New Zealand in Europe, but about soccer (football) I saw only one game when New Zealand lose with France in Confedereation Cup one year ago. Was very bad game for New Zealand.
    I read that Australia won 1-0 t New Zealand, but the level is similar or not?
    Reading the messages I saw that many australian fans thinks to are able to make good soccer, and so I ask why Australia it is not (never) arrived to World Cup? The problem is win with SOuth America teams? I played there and I think that Brazil, Australia, Uruguay anc Chile are football best
    of Australia. I saw the Parramatta, and the clubs of Melbourne and Brisbane.
    I did not see Your CLub playing.
    When will be the next match Australia New Zealand?
    I thank You for Your answer.
    BYe

     
  16. Auxodium

    Auxodium New Member

    Apr 11, 2003
    Perth, Australia
    Re: Captain's Comments Upset NZ Soccer

    May i ask why did you come to the conclusion why you disliked Australia? :eek:

    I love Australia and New Zealand is fabulous! but i would say in a thread about Oceani that "i don't like nation x' :D
     
  17. Aharon6

    Aharon6 New Member

    Jun 12, 2004
    Re: Captain's Comments Upset NZ Soccer

    What I do not like of Australia?
    The food, the opinion that I listened about European persons, about New Zealand, special in the Suoth of Australia I listened very bad things.
    Then I do like the opinion that I listened from a lot of persons about indigenous. I knew a lot of racist persons, and I do not like this.
    Special because indigenous are Australian too.
    I saw violence of police agent to asian little boys.
    I do not like the way that use the police, the persons of the DIMIA( Department of Immigration and Indigenous Affaris) when You come there for have the visa in the passport. They think to be special, they treat turist (in my case, and other 15 persons that was with me really in a not decent way, they use bad words, as they were a lot of little gods.
    I do not like this type of persons. For this reason I do not like Australia,is my experience and I did not visited this nation, I make one mistake one time.
    then I do not like the soccer that I saw (9 games I saw) I played and know France, Russia, Germany, Brazil Argentina ecc.
    The level, in my opinion is not good in Australia.
    Why I like New Zealand? Because there I did not listened racist words,
    and because they like very much European persons.
    Then I visited Tonga, Vanuatu, Figi, Tahiti, I know Oceania a little.
    I like Rugby too, but I think that New Zealand is best, I always see the games in Tv, where there are.
    Probably You are different from the persons that I meet but I have this opinions because this is my experience.
    With respect
    Bye? Is Your CLub that Perth that won the league?
    I saw Brisbane to Adelaide Utd





     
  18. Auxodium

    Auxodium New Member

    Apr 11, 2003
    Perth, Australia
    Re: Captain's Comments Upset NZ Soccer

    Racism is every where buddy get used to it.
    even in Italy i was abused and criticised, so what do you say about that? LOL

    you listened to europeans on australia? Y didn't you ask a local?

    italians - always a confusing bunch of people.
     
  19. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    The Kiwis and Aussies have what I would call a "friendly rivalry" but you can nearly always sit down with an Aussie (and hopefully the Aussies find the same thing with us) and have a beer.

    Unfortunately there is a very small percentage of people on both sides of the Tasman who take it too far. I can remember being in the Immigration queue at Melbourne Airport a few years ago and talking to a gentleman behind me about life, the universe and everything (as you do when you are in a queue in an airport) and everything was fine. I then pulled out my Kiwi passport and his attitude to me completely changed and he beacame a little abusive and aggressive. These people unfortunately spoil it for the rest of us.
     
  20. Aharon6

    Aharon6 New Member

    Jun 12, 2004
    Your experience is similar to my Mr Crowdie,
    that the persons in aiport and DIMIA (department of Immigration) because we made tourist visa with Internet and so we had to obtein the copy in DIMIA Office are very abusive and aggressive.
    And more 50 persons that I know that visited Australia and New Zealand see the same that I saw, and all prefer New Zealand and had the bad opinion of abusive behaviour of persons in Airport and Offices in Australia.
    If You want to think that Italians are confused think this, but I know (because I saw the australian people when arrived with my same fly) that any person treat they with abusive way.
    About the possibility to find friends I found friends in Samoa, Tahiti, Figi, New Zealand and all the place that I visited, except Australia.
    I only wrote aboutmy experience and all the persons that I know.
    All the best for Kiwis People and for All Black the special Team.


     
  21. Aharon6

    Aharon6 New Member

    Jun 12, 2004
    Re: Captain's Comments Upset NZ Soccer

    I asked at persons in the streat, but probably I am unlucky, but any accept to answer for give one information.
    My group saw just two Clubs but closed, one Macedonian, in Adelaide, and one Croazia in Melbourne. Anything from Italy.
    Any persons gave us informations, or answer at our questions.
    There are a lot of things for say that I do not like Australia.
    I visited 39 States of the world in any other happened to find the same bad behaviour. Ask and not obtein the answer at the information and amny other things. We was able to talk in franch, spanish, portougese, english, Italian, but we did not obtein at all any information, asking in Brisbane, Adelaide, Melbourne, ecc.
    I do not know if there are turist more lucky that us, but I only wrote about our exeperience. We want to come to Coober Bedy, but we did not come, because we did not obtein the answer for the hotel rooms.
    All bad, probably for Australian people is good, but for tourist so and so.

     
  22. Andy TAUS

    Andy TAUS Member

    Jan 31, 2004
    Sydney, AUS
    Crowdie,

    Are you sure it was an Aussie and NOT another Kiwi who was giving it to you in that immigration queue ???

    I, like others assumed it was an Aussie, but you didn't actually say in your post that you checked out each others passports !

    Just goes to show we all (including Aussies, Kiwis & Italians) have some less-than-adequate idiots within our midst.

    My war stories about travelling around Europe (and the disrespect shown to me & my partner) would not be out of place here, but I won't labour the point.

    Cheers.
     
  23. Aharon6

    Aharon6 New Member

    Jun 12, 2004
    Probably is possible to have bad experiences everywhere, unfortunately I had only in Australia, and is for this reason that I wrote that. many persons that I know had the same experience and I read that Crowdie too, from New Zealand had this. I bad if one has the same bad experience in Europe too, and if You or persons that You know had bad experience in Europe this is not correct too.
    Bye

     
  24. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    The Australians, as a whole, are not a bad people. They are very nationalistic and this can get annoying but as a people there are trying to find their own place in a whole dominated by the United States and its values. As an example of what I mean by nationalistic, if you read an Australian newspaper and it is reported that the Scottish scientist xxxx has found a cure for the disease yyyy then the scientist xxxx has some distant relative twenty five times removed that was an Australian or has some link to Australia through their goldfish. Now if an Australian living in Scotland is arrested for murder then he/she is no longer an Australian and is now Scottish :D

    It is something you get used to.
     
  25. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    Oh rubbish - they'd be a Kiwi and you know it.

    J
     

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