http://www.ussocceruk.com/news/?CatTypeId=2&ContentId=1452 Read and ponder. Bruce basically states that MLS has slipped. Where are the new stylistically imprinting players? He gets it. They are gone. Look at recent results: Chicago's embarrasing 5 goals against loss, San Jose's embarrasing 3-0 loss to CR's Alajuelense, US Nats vs. Haiti, the Olympic debacle, ect ect..... All of these losses are to 3rd world countries. And yet, we are losing with the best young players and franchises that our country has to offer. (Yes, I understand that we are just in our preseason preparation cycle, but it still does not cut it.) Why do we run from Copa America, or fail to push for a birth into the Liberators' Cup? Our Concacaf bretheren compete. Things we lack: 1.) Soccer role models, stylistically imprinting players that can demonstrate to our players what a modern Latin style of play looks like. 2.) International coaching to teach and assess this Latin style in the US, and to properly train the next generation of coaches (Youth, Pro, and USSF) 3.) Enrolling in those high level competitions that the Americas organize so that we can measure our strengths and weaknesses 4.) Televising those competitions so that we do not hide the reality in which our soccer finds itself 5.) Most importantly, professionalized development systems based on the soccer talent factories that churn out players in Latin America. There is no inherent ethnic predisposition to play better. This is simply a question of methodology and environment. With a little planning, this is something that is very doable from a DFW and MLS local perspective. One day, I would like to see our very own Burn become a soccer talent factory.
About 5-6 years ago, we had a very competitive domestic league. We were winning Copa America, our youngsters were winning and competing well in major international competitions, and our MLS DC United had just defeated the South American Brazilian champs. Meanwhile, our Mexican brothers gave a sarcastic "oh my our little gringo friends found out that a soccer ball is round". Shortly thereafter, that arrogance found a new humility and work ethic due to repeat butt whippings by gringos on youth and senior teams. It almost sounds ridiculous to ask, but have we become arrogant in our soccer expectations? I see the admittedly funny but arrogant cartoon. The maxim has historically been: laugh now or laugh later, but you only get one laugh. I suggest we leave the laughs for later and get to work now.
I must admit that it has become a little concerning that MLS teams don't do as well in Concacaf competitions as they once used to. But I do think that MLS is developing young American talent better than ever.
I would agree with Theo in saying that the US still needs to improve individual technical skills and tactical team skills. But I would not use the word LATIN. There are a great deal of players from many countries around the world I would hold up as examples. France for one, Italy, Spain... The Ukraine until the last couple ears maybe. Certainly Argentina and Brazil. I still think you are nuts if you think a certain ethnicity has anything to do with it. I would also agree with Theo's previous points about lack of Youth development. There should be a Burn Youth club that pulls the best from classic league and plays in the nation wide Y-League.
No they are not, at least not like Theo is talking about. And certainly not in the context of this discussion. If you are going to argue semantics and claim they speak romance based languages that are in turn based on latin they I suppose you can make the case. But what I am sure Theo is saying, and unless I have misunderstood him for six months, is LATIN AMERICAN. IE Central and South American. He is always speaking about Latin fans not suporting non-Latin players Don't be silly. What I mean by LATIN is NOT France, Spain, Italy, and the Ukraine. And I bet a case of beer that is NOT what theo is talking about either.
There is no inherent ethnic predisposition to play better. This is simply a question of methodology and environment. I still think you are nuts if you think a certain ethnicity has anything to do with it. i don't believe he said that... i think buzz you are trolling to play jump on theo...i may be wrong...frank
I am not playing jump on Theo, in this case I agree with him in essence. But Theo specifically said we need more LATIN STYLE. I was pointing that I think it's echnical skill and team tactics that are lacking.. not any specific race. I was simply stating my take. I know he said it was the Latin Sytle he liked. Not the race. I was saying that "latin Style" wa not what I wanted. Not enough team discipline and tactics. I like the 'continential' style... for lack of a better word. So my appoligies for beinging race into it, if that is not what he meant. This time.
No, he didn't he said "MLS has progressed". He also stated that we lost a few players that just happen to be pretty hard to replace (Etch, Nowak, etc...). He never said anything about the league "slipping". Yes, let's worry about all these preseason losses to teams in midseason form. Not to mention you neglect to mention by far the most important result of the preseason so far, MLS having 2 teams in the La Manga Cup semifinals, and one team winning it. Did you read the ESPN chat the other day with Coach Arena, he detailed exactly why we don't go to Copa America. It's not about style, it's about quality and quantity of world class players. We could always use better coaches. What high level competitions do American's organize? You can't televise something that the vast majority of a country doesn't want to watch. Again, professional development systems are in place all over the world, what's this latin fascination? By far the most effective systems for cultivating youth talent have been the dutch ones anyways. Give it time, you can't have all this over night, it takes $$ which MLS is just starting to figure out how to make.
For the sake of facts, Spain and Portugal play like Latin American countries while Italy and France do not. Turks and Russians play with somewhat of a Latin American style too...France and Italy play like European teams..France and Holland play stylistically similar types of football....Italy and Germany are somewhat comparable in their tactical, be careful style although the Italians are not quite as physical..
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=4957 Bruce Arena on why the U.S. doesn't participate in Copa America:
I think that Arena is right when he mentions that we don't have the Nowak's, Etcheverry's, Valderama's and Kubik's anymore and that it is watering down the league.
No. I think the quality of foreign players is about the same, but key to winning the leauge has become not getting the best 3 or 4 foreign guys, but to find and retain the best American players. That's where teams spend their money now. Ekelund, Ruiz, Guevarra, Spencer, Cancela et al might not have 'names' as big as those other players you mentioned, but they're younger and fitter and better able to withstand the rigors of an increasingly physical and competitive league.
I tend to agree with some of the arguments your making...but not all. I especially agree with the points about making our Division One teams soccer factories with strong youth systems - but all of this comes in time with financial stability...we can't take our eye off that. But frankly, as others have indicated, your personal preference of the Latin American style simply is different than mine. I may be in the vast minority, but I really think that the US is slowly developing its own "identity" - which combines the best of organization (I think Europe) and athleticism (I think Africa) with technical skill (South America) and possession (Central America) . (Obviously, we're behind on the skill/possession side, but that's the harder to develop.) I think your enjoyment of central American football clouds your view of US soccer...and I'm sure that you'd say that my enjoyment of European & African football clouds my view...that's okay. It's a difference of opinions. Having said all that - I tend to share your concern over our lack of performance in the Gold Cup. I know that we're still in the preseason - but it's hard for me to accept the MLS Supporter's Shield winner giving up 5 goals and losing by 3 to a team from T&T. In fact - I can't accept that. And the Fire shouldn't...and MLS shouldn't. Even in preseason that's pathetic. (The SJ result doesn't bother me as much because I think that Alajuelense is a pretty stong team - but honestly, SJ should beat them if MLS is where we all hope it is.) I think these results go directly to what Arena was saying - MLS is lacking those players that take a game over and carry a team to victory. Now, I think it is obvious (and I feel Arena would agree) that MLS 2004 is a better league with higher quality of play than 8 years ago...but we do lack those superstars. (My great hope is that the more players we send to Europe - the better odds we'll develop a few for the Nats.) The Fire should be embarrased. They were humiliated. (Normally that is a wonderful thing - but what does the beating they took say about the Burn who finished 30 points behind them in the table???) I think these should be the goals for MLS and US Soccer: Short-term: Financial Stability Medium-term: DOMINATE Concacaf & Develop world class players Long-term: DOMINATE the Western Hemisphere and win a World Cup My opinions...
MLS routintely did very well in this competition when it was played during the MLS season, and have routinely gotten beat down since it's been moved. Another possible reason- the players dont' care: http://quakemagic.matchnight.com/qmdefault.cfm?page=ARTICLE&show=353 As Agoos states, MLS teams gear themselves toward winning MLS Cup, and nothing else. I think the low quality of opponents is usually enough to get them through the opening rounds of the Open cup, and by the time the later games role around, players are at least in form and have begun to get mildly interested at the possiblity of making some money. You might want to re-examine you Latin-style role model players comment. MLS seems to be drifting toward a 'Latin Sytle' central midfielder(s), European style wingers, and a good American style Dmid.
Re: Re: [R] Soccer talent factory [XXX] I think this is an interesting thesis. I also think you're on to something. If there's one thing that practically every MLS team has as well as the National Team it seems to be a d-mid who's sole purpose is to break up attacks through the midfield and pass off the ball to someone more creative who can do something with it. I wouldn't say this is an original creation here in the States. Off the top of my head Gatusso used to do this for AC Milan and Batty used to do this for Leeds. However, while most of the other leagues I watch seem to have more variety in how they organize their teams, specifically how defensive and offensive duties are shared in the midfield, one telling element of every US team, national or professional seems to be the d-mid whose primary duty is defensive and destructive. Of course, we seem to have a range here in the States: you get the pure ankle biters like ABMOD in the Northeast and possibly Stone here in Dallas, through the more intelligent but still limited players like Armas in Chicago and Mulrooney in San Jose, up to the more highly skilled and comfortable-on-the-ball players like Clark at NY and Mastroeni in Colorado. (Of course, I'm mindful that NY seemed to play Clark on the wings more toward the end of last season.) I wonder if the d-mid is just an evolutionary step in our growth here in the States, so that one day the Mastroeni's and Clark's of our league evolve into Cocu's and Viera's, but seeing as how practically every team in the US makes sure to have that one d-mid in the middle, I'm guessing it just might be an element of the American style.
Follow me here, despite the long message - The word "Latin" goes far beyond merely refering to people of romance languages. The "Latin" countries of Europe share certain cultural traits, have a similiar language, have similiar cuisine, and also share many characteristics in their style of play. The people of Brazil and Argentina, and many other Latin American countries for that matter, as decendents of these European "Latin" countries, got much of their Latin style of play from them. What I'm saying is that Italy, Spain, Portugal, and France in some ways have much more in common with the Brazilian or Argentine style of soccer than they do with their European brothers - England, Scotland, Germany, Ireland, Norway, Hungary, Sweden, etc. If Theo meant Latin American style specifically he should have said so. Otherwise, at least to me, Latin style means a style that countries like Spain, France and Italy also play - a bit of flair, lack of discipline at times for sure, but certainly having much more creativity than the rest of Europe usually displays (unfortunately, creativity and lack of discipline often go hand in hand). Perhaps this is what Theo meant. If it is, I agree that MLS needs much more of that. As long as there is balance. The great DC teams of 96-99 under Bruce Arena had that balance. And to a certain extent, I think Arena is trying to find that for the US national team. It is the one advantage that we can have over other countries, the best of both worlds.
Given his history, I'm pretty confident that when Theo meant "Latin" he meant south and central american.
Guess what. While Burn mgmt. and its appologists on this board pooh-pooh the obvious suggestions, real franchises are steps ahead. Again, read and ponder: http://www.mlsnet.com/content/04/la0331sao.html. In the very near future, those clubs will be so far ahead, that we will no longer be viable in an economic or competitive level. I don't doubt that if we do ever get into this type of relationship, it will be with a European team that depends upon outbidding its counter parts for young SA talent.
Hey Theo in addition to posting on here and calling burn staff idiots. Why don't you call the Burn and talk to Elliott, etc. Maybe they would like to hear how you feel about this kind of thing. Maybe there are things like this going on with the Burn. maybe they have all kinds of things happening you don't know about. maybe, just maybe, they don't want to talk about things before they happen. maybe they are not going to tell you about deals, signings, and events BEFORE they are finalized. Then again maybe there are total freaking idiots and could use your genious. They have a phone, call them up and straighten them out. Seriously the Burn are always interested in what fans have to say. Ask Dustin and Wade they call and talk to Elliott all the time. If you feel strongly about this kind of thing CALL THEM UP AND TELL THEM. I harp all the time about lack of reserve team and youth team. This is one area we agree. But you have to voice your opinion TO THEM. Tell HSG what you want. Maybe they will even tell you what kind of things they are working on.