R.Madrid = media wh@re

Discussion in 'Spain' started by DanRod78, Apr 21, 2006.

  1. DanRod78

    DanRod78 New Member

    Mar 30, 2003
    Kansas City, KS
    What the f..k is the deal with R.Madrid being such a media wh@re?

    Everytime there's a game in Champions League they come out saying:
    "Yeah, that's the guy that we want, he "deserves" to be in our team"

    These are just the ones that I remember:
    R.Madrid played Arsenal, then they wanted Cesc Fabregas
    Milan beat Lyon, then they wanted Ancelotti
    Arsenal beat Villareal, now they want Thierry Henry

    Looks like R.Madrid goes after players only when everybody is talking about them.
     
  2. RemiNL

    RemiNL New Member

    Mar 8, 2006
    Real Madrid are like the borg, you will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
    It's also a part of their "royal" arrogance and fascist patronage throughout history.
     
  3. macaluca

    macaluca Member+

    Nov 24, 2005
    Park bench
    Theory...."El Barca no existe sin Real Madrid"
    Proof.....this thread.
    Gentlemen, congratulations Laporta's first theory of Inferiority has just been proved.
     
  4. kakaboypuf redded

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rotterdam
    I guess its a hype to bash Real Madrid nowadays, considering they are fucking up at every aspect of the game. But let me do the other thing for a change and disagree.

    Dont forget the history of Madrid. They are the most succesful club ever and also the richest. They have always strived for some kind of perfection and even though they are now far from it, it doenst mean they should stop striving for it.

    If they can buy any player on this planet, its their right to have interest in the best players. Hasnt got much to do with being a media whore, more with that they really want those players. Imo nothing wrong with.
     
  5. laudrup

    laudrup BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 14, 2005
    This is one big GILIPOLLEZ. Royal AND fascist? Learn a bit of Spanish history before posting such trash.
     
  6. DanRod78

    DanRod78 New Member

    Mar 30, 2003
    Kansas City, KS
    When fans at Bernabeu clap = they have class and are the best fans in the World
    When Laporta says that Barcelona is not Barcelona without R. Madrid (You have to be retarded to not understand that he's talking about the rivalry) = Barcelona should thank Madrid for anything that they have.

    That's call = having a big head
    And that's why your team is complete crap today.
     
  7. RemiNL

    RemiNL New Member

    Mar 8, 2006
    It's common knowledge that Real Madrid has always been the team favored by the Spanish monarchy. Besides being one of the few teams with direct Royal endorsement, hence the "real" label, the Monarchy also has payed off the teams debts in the past. This is not the most important thing though, the fascist link is two fold, first from Franco's direct intervention to steal Di Stefano from Barcelona, and then paying off a number of cup and league matches in the 50's so that his preferred team would win. Not to mention the scourge of neo-nazi ultras that attend every home game, including Ultras Sur members, as well as members of Orgullo Vikingo. Real Madrid is nothing more than a symbol of cultural genocide over 35 years of Franco's rule, and 4 centuries of Spanish Imperialism.
    El que tendría que aprender sobre la historia eres tú. :rolleyes:
     
  8. macaluca

    macaluca Member+

    Nov 24, 2005
    Park bench
    "Real"...few...Beti, Celta de Vigo, Deportivo,Espanyol, Mallorca, Racing, La Real(Sociedad), Zaragoza, Murcia, Recreativo, Sporting, Valladolid, Alcala, Union, Oviedo, Jaen, Irun ...with us as well, that's just about a whole division.
    Royal 'patronage?'...we were given the title 'real' in 1920 and did not win our first title until 1932...wow a few strings were being pulled then hey? It is not common knowledge as you put it that we are favouredby the monarchy...yes Juan Carlos is a Madrid fan (nothing unusual for the best supported club in Spain), but his Son is allagedly an Atleti fan.
    patronage under Franco?...no liga titles for the first 15 years of his rule(during which time Barca won 5)...yes he jumped on the bandwagon and used a successful Madrid as a symbol of a successful Spain but Atleti (Aviacion)were always seen a the team of the facist government.
    Loved by facists and kings alike heh?...is it just that you want someone to leve you....hmm classic inferiority complex.
    Bent referees...Reg Leafe?....Barca are regarded just as suspiciously by other clubs when it comes to dodgy decisions...and despite your black and white view of the world, your beloved Barca are just as guilty of bribes and corruption...for every di Stefano there is a Kubala (aprende tu historia si no entiendas). Even if there is any credence to what you say Villa and Laporta are now certainly making up for lost time.
    You've already been laughed out of the madid forum after your lies/stupidity about the Ultras Surs were exposed. I'm not going to repeat that whole argument, but suffice to say(again) that there are other clubs' supporters groups with bigger right wing credentials than Madrid, Orgullo Vikingo were set up as a non political group and how about the scourge on natinalists in Barca?.
     
  9. laudrup

    laudrup BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 14, 2005
    4 centuries of Spanish imperialism... considering that soccer (let alone RM) has only existed for about 150 years, that's pretty rich.

    Every team has neo-nazis, it is a sad scourge of all Spanish clubs. Including Barcelona. They're called Boixos Nois, and they are known for killing fans of non-nationalist rivals Espanyol. That'd be something to investigate, why Barcelona gets so much money from Catalan nationalist institutions (la Caixa, TV3, the autonomous government) and Espanyol doesn't see a dime.

    By the way, there is a reason why Ultras Sur and Orgullo Vikingo sit in opposite sides of the stadium. Orgullo Vikingo are either apolitical or extreme leftists. I know, because my seat is 20 metres away from them. In fact, Orgullo Vikingo was formed by disenchanted Ultras Sur members who wanted to avoid political labels. Don't let facts get in your way, though.

    For about 30 years, being endorsed by the royal family was the kiss of death in Spain. I don't know if you know this, but you appear not to.

    I'll tell you what your line of reasoning looks like: when Spain was (and is) a monarchy, RM was the favoured team of the regime. Oh wait, they won only one title before the 1934 Republic. Ah well, it's only facts. When Spain was a dictatorship, it was a fascist team of the regime. If there is a socialist government and Madrid wins five leagues in a row, team of the regime. If Madrid wins 3 CL in five years, they are the team of the regime (the European Union). That's called being a crybaby.

    I recommend you read a book called "how soccer explains the world". There's a very good essay about Barcelona. It is good sociological analysis.

    One of the few teams with royal endorsement... you ARE ignorant.

    Me gusta receibir lecciones de historia. Pero no vas a ser tú quien me las dé.
     
  10. Qdog

    Qdog Member

    May 8, 2002
    Andalusia
    Club:
    Sevilla FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I looked it up on Amazon. It sounds like a good read. I'm going to have to get it next time my son orders college books.:)

    Incidently, the record between the two teams prior to the Spanish Civil War was Barcelona 19 wins, Real Madrid 14 wins and 12 draws.

    During the Franco era (through the 1974 Cup final) the record was Barcelona 40 wins, Real Madrid 41 wins and 15 draws.

    Someone posted this link a couple years ago. I believe it was dmar, but it could have been Sinko or MinorThreat.

    http://www.rsssf.com/tablesb/barcamadrid.html
     
  11. Oscar

    Oscar Member+

    Nov 30, 2001
    Holland
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Macaluca and Laudrup, stop bringing facts into this discussion. Or I'll get the mods to yellow card the both of you!!!!! :D
     
  12. macaluca

    macaluca Member+

    Nov 24, 2005
    Park bench
    I've just reread what I wrote and would like to apolgise for the misprints and spelling mistakes that littered my post...I was just so angry about the collection of lies, cliches, half-truths, cule propaganda and misrepresentations of fact in those posts, that I couldn't get the words out properly.
    jesus, Madrid a media whore, this coming from poor little Barca a club that has been trying to market itself as a brand since before the concept of brand image was invented. Pathetic.
     
  13. YOUNGSTARS87

    YOUNGSTARS87 Yellow C@rd Bandit

    Dec 21, 2005
    lol...

    That's call = BAD ENGLISH.... lol
     
  14. (De La)Redstriker06

    May 3, 2003
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    Here is what I want to know... Barcelona is a little over 24 hours away since they got into the Champions League Final... and some Cule comes and starts this thread? If that isn't an inferiorty complex I don't know what is....

    You want to know what the difference between Barca and Real fans is? When we we're winnin CLs and La Ligas... I didn't give a toss about Barca... it didn't matter, they weren't in the frame of refrence. With Barca fans every success they achieve always has us tied into it, they always have to prove that they're better than us... I swear if you asked a Barca fan whether he'd like to see Madrid relegated or see Barcelona win the treble he'd go for Madrid being relegated... absolutley disgraceful.
     
  15. RemiNL

    RemiNL New Member

    Mar 8, 2006

    The Boixos Nois are no longer given free tickets to enter the Nou Camp, so they have been effectively wiped out by capitalism, whereas the Ultras Sur are still very much supported by their own club. Furthermore, you seem to have completely ignored the fact that I was talking about Franco's personal interventions in the 1950's, so you can safely assume that I was not referring to the first 15 years of his rule. Also, talking about the relationship between the Monarchy and Liga prior to 1936 is really pointless because the political environment once Franco seized power was drastically different. Even you as a Madridista have to admit that the Di Stefano acquistion greatly altered forever the destiny of Real Madrid and was a huge factor in leading them down the path of so many titles that the team has to date, and you have "El Caudillo" to thank for that.
    As for Ultras Sur, there was a very interesting documentary done by a journalist named Antonio Salas entitled "Diario de un skin" where he infiltrates them and discovers just how deep their connections to the Madrid Neo-Nazi movement go. I'm sure you won't bother to read it, you wouldn't want to actually learn the truth about your beloved ultras.
    Additionally, you assume because I am a Barcelona supporter that I feel the club is infallable, which is simply ridiculous. However, I believe that Barça has gone to much greater lengths to erradicating racism and futbol related violence than teams like Madrid have, need I bring up the 04/05 season? The Ultras Sur certaintly were not "model fans" that year in terms of racist chants and violence.
    Btw, The reason I made that comment on that threat about them also was partly due to the fact that a bunch of you Madridistas started up an anti-racism thread after the Eto'o- Zaragoza incident, in which you were accusing those of us Barcelona fans of not caring about the racist chants because we hadn't made our own thread yet, when it is your own ultras that are some of the biggest instigators of racism in Liga!
    As for the number of clubs with the "royal" title given by the monarchy, only about half of the clubs you guys listed are in Primera, so let's stick to the highest level of competition in Liga if you don't mind. Additionally, you may also recall that only one of those "real" teams has maintained its presence in Primera since the beginning. ;) The fact is that Real Madrid has been and always will be the pet team of the Spanish Monarchy, whether you find this to be a good thing or not simply depends on your politics.

    I still contend that Real Madrid is very much borg like. After all, right now the club has not won a single title in 3 seasons, has internal strife and disarray, cannot manage to settle on a President, and yet the Real Madrid boards still have twice as much activity as the Barça boards (aka the best club in the world). Quite amazing really, if that is not like the Borg I don't know what is. But I'm sure that eventually Real Madrid will have less and less supporters after they have gone further seasons without a single title. :D
     
  16. DanRod78

    DanRod78 New Member

    Mar 30, 2003
    Kansas City, KS
    That's called "typing too fast" dumb-a..
    English is my 2nd language, but I've lived in the US for more than a decade.
    Long enough to be a better speller than most americans (I know, that doesn't much)
     
  17. macaluca

    macaluca Member+

    Nov 24, 2005
    Park bench
    The level of support given to the Ultras has dropped dramatically(as was already explained in the RM forum. What support they do get is mainly related to the work they do organising supporters trips to away games. Orgullos Vikings recieve no support whatsoever

    So you can pick and choose when we talk about to try and prove your own argument? The fact that Franco used us to support his own ends at times does not make us a facist team. You brought up Royal Patronage, that happened prior to 1936...now you don't want to talk about it?...how conveniant for you. So you want to talk about the monarchy after Franco, yes the King is a Real Madrid fan...SO WHAT...any support he gives is as a fan...there is no political influence, no monetry help.
    Like most cule propaganda this is a distortion of the facts. To thank for the signing of Di Stefano we have to thank di Stefano, who realised that he and Kubala would never work in the same team, Raimundo Saporta and Snr Bernebeu, who waved a great lump of cash under di Stefano's nose, Marti Carreto, whose incompetence as Barca president let Alfredo go and finally General Moscardo whose involvement in Spanish football probably eased di Stefano's transfer to Madrid. Was it a murky deal...yes of course it was, but no more murky than a drunk Kubala turning up to sign for Barca and asking "when do we get to Madrid?" Please note I'm not saying Madrid are whiter than white...just that there are two sides to this and that Barca are no cleaner than us..[/QUOTE]
    Again you are picking and choosing time frames...yes Barca has cleaned up its act a little under Laporta but after the figo game you had no choice really did you. However to state that barca has done more to eradicating football violence a few weeks after your beloved fans smashed up madrid coaches is hypocritical at best. As you were told before, all the Madrid clubs have introduced and are implementing a program of anti-racist measures. To state that barca has done more recently and then to ignore recent events in barca while quoting 2 year old events in Madrid is a pretty poor argument.

    A few madrid fans (well sort of) made some stupid comments...most of us realise that most posters in either forum are not racist and care about the issue. Again Ultras Surs are no more racist than several other groups at other clubs...espanyol? Atleti? maybe even barca...ask Roberto Carlos. I ciould just as easily say that Barca are some of the biggest instigators of nationalistic violence in Spain.
    Your most idiotic point yet.I named about half the sides in primera liga as having the 'royal' title...In no sense could that be described as a few. Of the others a number are considered historically 'big clubs'...sporting, valladolid, oviedo. how many do I have to name. you say we have always been the pet team of the monarchy (presumably you are not talking pre-Franco:p ) yet whoever the king supports, there is no practical value to this...get over it. Even before franco (if you'll allow me to bring it up) Royal patronage did not translate into titles.
    Barca went, 4/5 years without a title recently and did not lose fans ...and nor would I expect it to...are barca borg-like as well then? yes there are more madrid fans on this board, but i've seen others with more barca fans. yes a period with little success may lose either club some of the transient fans that latch onto success but both are big clubs and both will remain so. You seem to be obsessed with how many fans madrid has...once again my advice to you is, get over it.
     
  18. RemiNL

    RemiNL New Member

    Mar 8, 2006
    This strictly depends on the next presidency of the club. There have been presidents in the past who have supported ultras sur to a great extent. Only the future can tell what kind of club support they'll be getting.


    My point was the royal patronage combined with Franco's favoritism during the 50's. So this in no way is relevant to the pre-36 era. Besides which I am also aware the club was actually founded by two republican socialists, but that does not mean the political environment didn't change once their republican president was killed by Franco during the civil war. As for the King being a fan, do you really believe there has been no monetary aid at one time from the monarchy? Come no don't be so naive. How else are you going to explain the magical wiping of certain debts in the 60s and 70s? Ah well, I suppose you will never recognize such a thing happened.

    There are not two sides, the simple fact is that Real Madrid had River Plate fabricate papers stating that they had actually bought Di Stefano from them, and then had Franco intervene with his puppet courts and declare that they should share him. The proceeding incompetence of Carreto afterwards has nothing to do with Franco's personal involvement that secured his team Di Stefano once Barcelona was forced to cut their losses. Its interesting how you cannot admit that this was the key turning point in producing the number of titles Real Madrid has acquired. The fact is that Real Madrid owes its success to Franco and you know it.

    How exactly are clubs supposed to control fans outside of stadiums? Do you realize how nonsensical your argument is here? And anyways, the extent to which Ultras Sur continues its influence on games, will like I said, depend on the next President.

    Yeah you could just as easily say it, but it wouldn't be true. What the hell kind of nationalistic violence are you talking about? Barcelona supports Catalan identity, but there is no nationalistic violence since Terra Lliure disbanded, and they had nothing to do with the club anyways. As for Roberto Carlos, the last game in the nou camp were taunts, not racist chants, as much as you may deny that fact, there was no news reports to the contrary. Boixos Nois are not there in numbers anymore to incite racist chants. Anyways Roberto Carlos is a scumbag who doesn't think before he does things. Giving his jersey to Ochaita and then afterwards saying he regretted it, injuring Valdo and then laughing about it in front him, and saying he would break his other leg if he could. Yeah, one hell of a player that Roberto Carlos, he deserves nothing but the worst in my opinion.

    How many times do I have to say it, the King payed off their debts. Oh wait, that is not officially on the record is it? I guess it must not be true then.
    Anyways last time I checked there are 20 teams and 8 have the royal title. I concede on this point that that is more than a few, however when Real Mallorca, Real Racing are relegated next year along with Malaga and replaced by Recreativo Huelva, Nastic, and Almeria there will be two less teams with the royal title:D. In all seriousness though, the point is that there is only 1 capital in spain, and last time I checked the Monarchy does not hold its primary residence in Murcia. To say that Real Madrid is not a symbol for a centralized, royal Spanish government is just a little bit disingenuous, don't you think? Also, I don't appreciate being insulted, at no time have I made any personal attacks, I have the impression if I had done the same I would have already been carded, since the support for RM from the moderators on this board seem to be rather substantial. :rolleyes:

    Come on now, be serious. You are seriously going to pretend Madrid has an equal market to Barcelona? Then I wonder why it was Real Madrid being shown on ESPN2 CL back in the fall playing a very mediocre Rosenborg side twice, while Barcelona was not televised until they met a big premiership team in Chelsea? Let's not pretend that Madrid doesn't have these larger quantity of fans and a much bigger market, especially considering the clubs success in the late 90's and early 00's, which I feel is well deserved. But sometimes when a team like Madrid struggles and is so pathetic in its play, and yet still has so many fans, you really have to wonder if there isn't some kind of Borg like nature to it. That being said, I'm not some kind of crazy anti-madridista who would like to see Real Madrid relegated, I think the rivalry is exciting and without it Liga would not be anywhere near as good. I do hope Real Madrid becomes competitive again, it will makes things more entertaining for all Liga fans.
     
  19. Fiorentina lives!

    May 5, 2004
    Barcelona jealous they are not the capital of Spain, eh? La envidia es el deporte nacional en España.

    Does Real Madrid get full of it? Yeah. Sometimes. Typical Spanish behavior to Godify oneself (this coming from a half-Spaniard myself)

    As for Barcelona... why do Spaniards see FCB successes as Spanish successes when Barsa is anti-Spain? No sane Spaniard should follow a team that hates Spain. I can't register an Andalusian being pro-FCB.

    Oh and f*** Franco.

    Who by the way has been dead for 31 years!!! Get da f*** over it, Catalonians and Basques. So all Spaniards are like Franco, in 2006???? Una mier-da.
     
  20. laudrup

    laudrup BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 14, 2005
    Dude, you are in over your head in this one, you know jack about contemporary Spanish history, so quit embarassing yourself. Spain was NOT a monarchy until 1976 at the earliest. Until then, and for some a couple of years afterwards, the house of Borbón did not have a penny to its name, it had to survive on the charity of other European monarchies and on whatever spending money Franco gave the appointed prince Juan Carlos. Despite this, one of your points is that the Monarchy paid for RM's debts in the 60s and 70s. Pray tell me how, when they were all in exile living off the scraps that the Windsors gave them. So yes, I say that such a think never happened because it couldn't have.

    Who's been assimilated into believing historical lies now?

    Ah, the difference between racist taunts and racist chants. You have lost any respect I could have had for you. By the way, I've never seen Eto'o get hit by a lighter.

    Eto'o also spit in a dude's face, yet that does not make racism against him OK. You really need to take a logic course in whatever school you're in, because your arguments are really weak.

    Oh, and source for the broken leg comment?

    This is what stupid racists say to justify why they taunt the other team's black players and not their own. You are really stooping to Ultras Sur level now.

    As Goebbels said, repeating a lie enough time makes it the truth. I have explained to you why the King (who wasn't even a king then) could not have paid off jack in the period you mention. Either read up on your history and try to counter my argument, or accept that what you said before is impossible.

    So your ultimate argument is that people are stupid. Good to know. You're also implying that if a team sucks and doesn't win anything all its fans should desert it, because it doesn't make sense to keep following it. Unless you're a borg. Really, you should listen to yourself.
     
  21. ELADO

    ELADO New Member

    Aug 9, 2005
    washington dc usa
    yeah we thank madrid for laying out like a chick so we can have our way with them!hahahaha! such whores!lmao
     
  22. macaluca

    macaluca Member+

    Nov 24, 2005
    Park bench
    Ok, we've written a lot here so I'll try and be a little succinct with my answers to the points you have made.

    Firstly, at no point have I insulted you...I described the point you made as being idiotic, and since you have now conceded that point, I am guessing I was not too far off the mark. I'm sorry if you took it as a personal insult ... it was not meant as one.

    With regards to the Ultras, yes things may change in the future, but as neither of us has access to a crystal ball, I sugest we stick to the past and present. Any argument that things may change in the future is self defeating anyway as I can apply it just as easily to your points as you do mine.

    With regards to the support of Franco in the fifties and the royal patronage.
    I have not seen any evidence concerning debts being paid off by the monarchy...show me to what you are refering. What I will say is that the helping hand of Franco in the 1950's is a little bit different from...
    ....or from...
    In addition to which, do you really believe that during all this time Barca have recieved no help, no favours, no monetary 'gifts' or 'aid' as you put it from the catalan establishment...the resistance/nationalist underground (during Franco's time), the government, local councils, businesses,banks and senior figures. If you think Barca's support is any cleaner than Madrids, then you are as naive as you accuse me of being. Ask Espanyol fans about which teams have friends in high places.

    Regarding Di Stefano...Madrid did not fabricate papers with River Plate....theit deal was with Millonarios in Columbia, with whom di Stefano was playing. Madrid actually paid Barca the money they had spent on the RP deal so at no time did they pretend they had done that deal. Was this a murky and dodgy deal?...yes of course. Was that of Kubala to Barca?...most certainly.
    The arrival of di Sefano changed our history ?...yes it did but let's say you had kept him ....and that we had got Kubala...who knows what would have happened...we might have won the first 10 EC's:D

    I can't let the Madrid owes it's success to Franco line go unchallenged...absolute rubbish and an insult to the players who played during that period. We owe our success to don Santiago and to the players...nothing more.

    You ask how Barca are supposed to control fans outside of the stadium...that is not the point. You were attacking the Madrid fans as being violent thugs....these people are Barca fans and violent thugs...what is the difference? (apart from the barca incident being much more recent)

    Regarding R Carlos I was talking about a long running history of racial abuse he has recieved at Camp nou rather than just one game.
    So you don't like R Carlos so it is all right to racially abuse him and he deserves it...
    What a lovely person you are...I hate Etoo and think his behaviour is disgraceful at times....the difference is I would never say he deserves what he has had to endure. i didn't insult you before but after that comment I'm sorely tempted....and sh!t, we're supposed to be the racists.

    Madrid as a symbol for Spanish centralised government?...yes in the eyes oy basques and catalans that is probably true...I would suggest to most Spaniards and even people worldwide it is a symbol of Spain rather than centralised government. Whether that is a good thing depends on your point of view....much the same as Barca being a symbol of an independant state of Catalunya.
    More importantly Real Madrid is a football club, the worlds best football club, and while I realise why Barca fans feel the need to politicise everything about us and perpetuate the myth (after all your whole brand image and marketing campaign is that of a club fighting cruel repression), sometimes you have to take us for what we are.
     
  23. Godinho10

    Godinho10 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Aug 19, 2005
    Poor youngstar got owned lol
     
  24. RemiNL

    RemiNL New Member

    Mar 8, 2006
    Apparently you have, you honestly believe that because the Monarchy is not in power that they were bankrupt? Let's be honest, the Spanish Monarchy never went bankrupt to begin with when it was disposed in 1931, or do you think all that money in the Swiss Bank Accounts would just disappear? Besides which, technically speaking the Monarchy is not even in power as of 1976, in terms of who really runs the country, so it makes no difference if Franco was the official figurehead, the Monarchy had plenty of monetary and diplomatic influence throughout his rule.


    I said "taunts" as in, no racist abuse, the kind where fans might yell at a player "You suck", instead of something more offensive. If you have proof to the contrary, then by all means present it, but otherwise its just Roberto Carlos being paranoid about previous visits, when he did have racist abuse directed at him.
    As for me, you can safely assume I am not judging Roberto Carlos by the color of his skin, but the content of his character, and the content of his character sucks. As for your link, enjoy: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=352741&cc=5739
    Particurarly of interest is the part where Valdo says:
    'I didn't understand his attitude,' Valdo was reported as saying in sports daily Marca on Tuesday. 'He laughed when I told him I was injured and he told me he would do the other as well.'

    I don't think fans should desert any team, unless maybe they get relegated into the basement regional divisions. What I am talking about is the character of the fans that seem borg-like to me. You see, even though the club has not won anything in 3 years, there is still this air of arrogance that I perceive from most fans, as if they are entitled to and must win every year. Just the fact that Luxemburgo lost only a few matches early in the season, still had the club in the top 4, won his last match, and was still sacked, I think says a lot about Real Madrid´s "Borg" like resemblance. It permeates throughout the whole club. Other clubs including Barça can go many seasons without titles, some lesser clubs are just happy with not being relegated, but it seems like Madridistas are never satisfied unless they win the league every season. I think it makes their fans that much more unappreciative when they do when titles. And when you have someone like Arsene Wenger saying he'd never coach at a club that doesn't give its managers the time to develop a club, that has such a low tolerance for losses, well I think it just goes to show that maybe too much success has made Madrid an arrogant organization. Of course, who knows, maybe after a while Barça might inherit the same arrogance after too many titles, it certaintly is a possibility that I admit freely.

    I´ve never made any claims that Barça is free from corruption. But I just don't think it compares to Madrid, sorry. And I don't believe Terra Lliure ever aided Barça either, but perhaps you can provide evidence of that claim. As for Di Stefano, my understanding is that Barça purchased him from Millonarios, at which point Madrid stepped up and attempted to claim that they were the real owners of his contract with River Plate and they had purchased him from them. I'm not pretending to be an authority on this. But the subsequent ruling by the Spanish courts that we all know were subordinate to one man leaves no room for doubt that Franco played a big part in the scandal. That being said, you have to consider that Di Stefano at Madrid changed their entire destiny as a club.
    I never said Madrid fans were violent thugs, I said their ultras were. As are Boixos Nois. I'll admit that I was heavily influenced by that investigative book I mentioned "Diario de un Skin" but I'll also admit that he did not infiltrate Boixos Nois, so the impression he gives of Ultras Sur is pretty one sided, but its still a very disturbing report of what they have done and are capable of.
    As for Roberto Carlos, you can see my response to laudrup, when I say he deserves the worst, I'm judging by his actions, not by his skin color. And yes Eto'o has done some dirty things at times, but I'm not sure it quite compares to the Ochaita incident and the Valdo injury.
    I have a small problem with this. Mostly because it would assume that only those regions with nationalistic sentiments are anti-madridistas, but I don't believe thats true. I'd submit that to most Spaniards Real Madrid is simply a symbol of the capital and all the good or bad connotations that go with that. To people worldwide perhaps, since this is where Real Madrid has focused their marketing efforts, and is the reason why they have such a big foreign market. But that in itself I don't believe is a good thing. All it does is promote a one-sided culture of bullfights and tapas which I don't believe is healthy, especially in such a culturally diverse country like Spain. However, it's not necessarily the clubs fault, but it does come with the territory.
    As for Real Madrid being the best club in the world...well, there's always the past to remember huh? :D Present day though, I don't think you could really make a case.
     
  25. laudrup

    laudrup BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 14, 2005
    I insist, you know NOTHING of contemporary Spanish history, quit disgracing yourself, it's stopped being funny and it is becoming offensive. Franco a figurehead? Let me make this clear to you, because you don't understand it. Throughout the entire Franco dictatorship, the whole royal family was in EXILE in Estoril (Portugal). Funny way of exerting your influence, being kicked out of your own country. Franco designated the current king as a figurehead to continue on his regime after his (Franco's) death. He did so skipping the legitimate succession line, since the next in turn was Juan Carlos's father, Juan de Borbón. So you see, this Franco whom you call a figurehead (this is offensive for the millions that suffered under his rule) actually told the royal family what it could and could not do, and made the rules.

    Anyway, back to Estoril, Juan de Borbón was Franco's nemesis (and viceversa), they couldn't stand each other, so all his assets were confiscated. He lived on the charity of other European ruling families. Meanwhile, Juan Carlos moved to Spain, and Franco held his pursestrings. There are several well-documented books about Juan Carlos's time in Spain under Franco (the last one by Paul Preston, but I'm sure you have no idea who that is), and they all show that Juan Carlos had no influence on what went on and had very little money.

    So let me spell this out to you: The monarchy HAD NO INFLUENCE during Franco's rule and lived on the charity of others. Calling Franco a figurehead is offensive. Trying to teach others about Spanish history, which you are making up as you go, is offensive. Please don't keep spewing this trash, because it is simply not true. It would be nice if you apologized for making it up too. Because that is what you are doing, making it up. I would like to take the rest of your points seriously, but I am naturally distrustful of people that make things up, and, when confronted with their big fat lies, make stuff up to cover for those.

    You just saw a crown, put together a couple of thoughts about fascism and decided that, whatever really happened, the truth is that Real Madrid is a fascist-monarchist-imperialist club of conquistadores. We have told you repeatedly that, in Spain from 1936 to 1977, fascist-monarchist is a contradiction in terms, but no, you really know everything about figureheads, Swiss bank accounts and covert diplomatic and financial influence.

    Oh, one more thing. I don't "honestly believe" anything. I just read up on my subjects. You obviously don't.

    Please. Everyone has heard monkey chants directed at Roberto Carlos. Whether it was this year or the last is irrelevant.
    Fair enough, I appreciate the link. That said, I don't like Eto'o but I don't think that racially abusing him because he can be a jerk is fair. It is repugnant, in fact. Same goes for Roberto Carlos.
    I have finally found the reason why you make up so much historical stuff. It is because you ignore that history even exists, that things happened beyond your pathetic little horizon. Madrid has a glorious history, one that has captured generations of Spanish and European fans. Luxemburgo was sacked because he failed to live up to these historical standards, specifically he subbed in a defender for a forward in a home game against a mid-table team. You can't do that. The fact that Madrid is a club where the maximum is demanded actually pretty engaging. We are not arrogant (at least I am not). We just expect the max from our players and club, because that is what has historically happened. I honestly don't think demanding the best of our players is wrong. Complacency, of which Barca new a lot in recent years, is much much worse.
     

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