R.I.P. Bobby Thompson

Discussion in 'Baseball' started by Goodsport, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    RIP to one of the greatest sign thieves of all time.

    In the end, Ralph Branca wins.
     
  3. PsychedelicCeltic

    PsychedelicCeltic New Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    San Francisco/London
    Wah. That story was a load of garbage. Thomson was the hottest hitter in the league and owned Branca all years.
     
  4. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Home road splits might suggest otherwise... the system was supposedly in use much of the year...

    But the Dodgers didn't want Branca to face Thompson.

    Erskine couldn't get loose in the bullpen and Branca was the only pitcher available, as Newcombe was toast by then. Might have been the time to issue an intentional/unintentional wallk tho'...
     
  5. PsychedelicCeltic

    PsychedelicCeltic New Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    San Francisco/London
    Thomson hit better away from home.

    The 1951 Giants hit for more power at home (their BA/OBP numbers were the same each way) but they hit much better in the 1st half than the 2nd, which is when people usually ascribe the whole sign stealing system to have been used. Their three best hitting months were May, June and July, not August and September/October, which is when they went 37-7.

    The reason they won the pennant was that in August and September/October their pitching got into shape and Maglie, Jansen and Koslo were red-hot. Their staff ERA in September was 2.58, which is awesome.

    Thomson had a 1.350 OPS in September, hitting .440 with 9 home runs. He was having one of the greatest hot streaks in baseball history, had owned Branca (7/18 in 50/51 with 3 home runs) and Branca was a gopher ball artist. He'd given up 24 home runs in 142 innings the year before and 19 innings in 204 innings in 1951, which is better but still not great.

    So yeah, while there's no doubt that the sign-stealing happened, there's very little evidence of it having a positive effect on the Giants (more evidence of a negative effect), virtually no evidence of it having a positive effect on Thomson, and plenty of evidence that a gopher ball artist facing the hottest hitter in baseball didn't need sign stealing to give up a home run in this situation.

    It's a fiction invented by Prager to sell books. It's telling that a contemperary, namely Branch Rickey, called it the worst managerial decision in the history of baseball.
     
  6. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    I meant Dodger pitchers against Giant hitters overall home/vs road-- there might be enough sample there to suggest something either way. Should have italicized "might"-- sorry.

    Not sure what Rickey expected as an alternative... leave Newk in? He wasn't a fan of the intentional walk IIRC.
     

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