Question on Perkins

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Arisrules, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    I have a question and was wondering if the fans here had any thoughts. What was DC's FO mindset for breaking the bank to sign Perkins, when they knew Hamid was in the pipeline. My point is, that if I know a keeper is at most a year away from being a fullblown MLS starter (and it ended up being sooner then that), why do I go after Perkins and give up so much?

    Has this question been asked? It just seems to me like epic mis-management of assets. I know you guys needed a goalie, but it is still a big question mark for me.
     
  2. Lowecifer

    Lowecifer Member+

    Jan 11, 2000
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Mindset? Sheer panic.
     
  3. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    hindsight is 20/20

    Bringing in an experienced national-team-level goalie to mentor an untested 19 year old makes a lot of sense on the face of it.

    But Perkins didn't play like an experienced national team goalie and Hamid hasn't played like a 19 year old
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Lowecifer

    Lowecifer Member+

    Jan 11, 2000
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Bringing him in wasn't the problem, overpaying was.
     
  5. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    Yea, they gave up a lot even if Hamid wasn't in the pipeline. The fact that he was, and they pulled that trade, is puzzling.
     
  6. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Imagine that, the front office overvalued talent
     
  7. Unitard Fan

    Unitard Fan New Member

    Jun 30, 2008
    Richmond
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not in the camp that says Fred was worth keeping around, and I don't think the money the FO agreed to pay was all that outlandish.

    Every talent assessment is a gamble, albeit with a bit of science involved. Bringing in a national team level goalie to teach a young, up and coming goalie and to organize a back line that, at the time, was a major weak point in our squad seemed like it could be money well spent at a high price. Perkins hasn't performed to expectations - who could've been certain of that?
     
  8. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I'm not sure anyone expected Hamid to seriously compete for the top spot.
     
  9. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    Realistically, no sane FO would put their faith in an untested 18-yo goalkeeper. Don't judge the decision using Perkins's performance this season. He was expected to be the steady, calm presence that he was when he left here. Nobody could have forseen this meltdown.
     
  10. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    I'm not saying that. My question is more this, if you know you have this kid in the pipeline, do you really give that much up for Perkins, with as many holes as there are in the rest of the team? It stood out to me when the deal was made then, and looks even worse now.
     
  11. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    I had no issue getting Perkins back. I thought at the time we had overpaid, but wanted to give it some time thinking that perhaps he had really matured and grown during his time in Europe.

    Also, a kid in the pipeline doesn't mean he's going to be a good pro, but you know that.
     
  12. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think, now as then, that you have to consider all the factors.

    Simple truth is that we were not in a good bargaining position, everyone knew it, there was nothing we could do about it, and Troy was going to be the best known quantity American GK to come in to MLS for probably at least a couple years. Given all of our problems at the position recently, and the fact that you don't know what Hamid will do, he's young, and you could get an offer you can't refuse for him someday, it's the right call to go after Perkins. There's no doubt about that in my mind. Perkins will return to form.

    Did we give up too much? Sure, I think so even before his bad form. But as I said, we had little choice.

    If Hamid is sold next year or the year after and we don't have Perkins, everyone would be flipping a bitch about now we have to find another GK again.
     
  13. blockski

    blockski Member

    Feb 13, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
    Exactly. Hindsight is 20/20.

    Even if they were sure of Hamid's talents, you don't want to put too much pressure on him to be the guy - particularly with the season we've had - and shoot his confidence right out of the gate. Don't want to turn him into Rick Ankiel.
     
  14. Sundevil9

    Sundevil9 New Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Reston, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any anti-Perkins trade talk, other than overpaying, is absurd.

    The alternative was having a goalkeeping tandem of Kocic and Hamid.

    And who's to say that Hamid would do as well if he didn't have Perkins in training? And he's probably benefited from the times where Troy has been in net and he can try to learn from the bench.

    And all the praise that we heap on Hamid doesn't mean that the kid's got some holes in his game, but we give him a pass because he's 18.
     
  15. iammrben

    iammrben Member

    Jul 27, 2007
    DC (Petworth)
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Wicks was a modestly talented, deranged lunatic who stepped on people for sport. Perkins does not do this.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Saltenya94

    Saltenya94 Member

    Jul 29, 2003
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    DC United
    Exactly. Hamid and Wicks? Is this what people wanted? Of course not. But these may be the (hate to say it) the first of many "dark years" at DCU.

    The team does not draft like the Revs do. Yeah, we all know its a crapshoot... but look at previous 1st Round DCU Draft picks:

    2009 Wallace + Pontius
    2007 B. Arguez
    2006 J. Moose
    2005 N. Van Sicklen (2nd round - honorable mention for having a cool name)
    2004 Adu
    2003 Esky + D. Stokes
    2002 J. Mapp + D. Kanté

    The thing that always had DCU in contention, specifically 2004 - 2006 seasons was there excellent team building.

    The key difference is all the other FOs have learned how to be effective + under budget at the same time. Look at the Crew w/Scholleto. Look at Real Salt Lake! Speedy team-orientated passing Argentines passing to speedy players on the sides. Taken from page 1 of DCU playbook (when Gomez was fast-er)

    This year Perkins was given a horrible defense. An even worse defensive midfield. Tons of injuries. My verdict is still not final till next season on Perkins / or / Hamid. Then, (hopefully with less injuries) a more solid judging. For now, the whole team has sucked together. On the plus side we'll have the 1st round pick. **ducks**
     
  17. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This may not refute your comparitive analysis, but the thing that stands out to me the most from this is that higher first round picks ended up with useful players, lower ones do not, for the most part.

    Now, I don't know the actual pick number, I'm just going on the assumption that after poor seasons we had higher picks, and after good seasons we had lower ones. About half those picks are good ones, half are not.

    And while Arguez and Stokes might be listed as bad ones, Arguez garnered a transfer fee and Stokes gave us quite a few first team minutes.

    And I feel like every time we had a good first round pick it was secretly because the player wanted to play for us, not because we picked them out.
     
  18. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think one reason DC was willing to overpay to get Perkins back was that they had reason to think Bryan Namoff had played his last match, and ANY back four without Namoff was going to be suspect. You had to have a quality keeper just to stay in the game.

    Namoff's injury, which probably has ended his great career, has been underplayed, even ignored, by the media.
     
  19. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gotta say, I'm surprised at how good that list is...Van Sicklen as a 2nd rounder I wouldnt' expect much out of.

    Moose and Kante are the only real duds there, and Moose was not exactly a stretch - very highly regarded out of college. We may have got lucky with Arguez being bought but the fact that a Bundesliga(?) club thought highly enough of him to pay a transfer fee also says to me that whoever decided on drafting him was not off the res
     
  20. Th4119

    Th4119 Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Annandale, VA
    Hamid certainly has big holes in his game and must improve his work ethic in training to fix them.

    If nothing else, hopefully Perkins has given him lots of advice in this part of his game. Because if the team isn't getting at least that out of Troy then it's that much harder watching Fred and McInearny along with some cash up in Philly.
     
  21. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just a quick memo to all of this seasons Perkins bashers..........if Troy had been in nets last night United would have tied 0-0.


    I am all for giving time to Hamid so he grows but I think this shows he is not perfect either. ;)
     
  22. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't remember anyone here saying that Hamid was perfect. After several howlers from Perkins, a lot of folks wanted to see what Hamid could do.

    Did Hamid have a howler last night? You'd better believe it. Will he have more? Very likely.

    However, I don't think he has had as many this season as Perkins, who is most definitely not a rookie.
     
  23. JoeSoccerFan

    JoeSoccerFan Member+

    Aug 11, 2000
    The problem isn't that they chose good players, but that they left better players on the board.

    For example, who would you rather have, these players -
    2007 B. Arguez
    2006 J. Moose
    2005 N. Van Sicklen

    or these
    2007 Robbie Finley
    2006 Nathan Sturgis
    2005 Gonzalo Segares

    I didn't just look back and pick these players in retrospect, these were the players that I advocated for AT THAT TIME.

    Lets not forget that we traded away the 2008 1R, pick #10 for Rod D. I don't recall my pick at that time, but I probably would have selected Shea Salinas.

    Also, to be fair, 2001 was a hugely successful draft, Lisi, Nelson, Quaranta, Namoff.

    DCU has started taking the draft seriously the last 2 years, 2009 (Pointius, Wallace) and 2010 Graye (as a 4th pick).
     
  24. Primate

    Primate Member

    Sep 17, 2002
    Club:
    DC United
    You don't know this, Troy has had plenty of howlers of his own.
    I like Troy, I don't know what his issue is this season though.
     
  25. Cweedchop

    Cweedchop Member+

    Mar 6, 2000
    Ellicott City, Md
    Without reading through the rest of the thread and at the risk of repeating what may have been said already, the answer is pretty simple.

    With the goalkeeper situation being what it has been for the past two seasons (dreadful to mediocre), having an opportunity to bring back a player who has been more than advertised in the recent future, it seemed the right move.

    As has already been said, they simply paid too much for Perkins. This is isn't hindsight. When the rumor began circling in December/January that Perkins would be available for a trade, I remember saying on Goff's blog that anything more than the #7 pick in the upcoming SuperDraft would be too much to give up.

    Well, we all know what the FO did.

    With that being said, the FO could not in good conscience go into the season with an 18-yearl old #1 keeper. There isn't a team on the planet that does that. However, the team did know it had a potentially good one in Hamid as evidence by the training sessions from last season as well as his appearances at the US camp when they were here for the Costa Rica match. Hamid was turning heads and stunning people with some sick saves.

    Bottom line here is that with Perkins, the deal was too much from the gitgo and has proved even moreso since..
     

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