Question about Torpedo Moscow

Discussion in 'Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, & the former Soviet Repu' started by Adrian P., Jan 17, 2004.

  1. Adrian P.

    Adrian P. New Member

    Jul 2, 2003
    Copenhagen Denmark
    As A Brondby fan from Denmark I clearly remembers the side Torpedo Moscow which Brondby expelled from the UEFA Cup Quarter finals in 1991.

    I have seen that 2 Torpedo Moscow teams are existing at the moment how come? What has happened?
     
  2. ProfZodiac

    ProfZodiac Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I'm not completely qualified, but the original Torpedo, the one that you remember, was owned by the ZIL auto-manufacturing plant. When ZIL and Torpedo parted ways, Torpedo did not disband, rather, Torpedo continued to play. The ZIL plant purchased or started a new team, who now went by Torpedo-ZIL. Before this past season, the ZIL moniker became Torpedo-Metallurg when ZIL again bailed on its club. The Metallurg plant, to my knowledge, has now dumped the team as well, as Metallurg barely avoided relegation, with some dubious help from another Moscow team.

    Both teams have miniscule fan bases, and the arguments are constant over which team is "The Real Torpedo."

    Shurik and Zenit, the co-moderators of the forum, can probably answer your question more completely.
     
  3. Adrian P.

    Adrian P. New Member

    Jul 2, 2003
    Copenhagen Denmark
    Interesting it might sound a bit like a russian version of the Wimbledon saga.
     
  4. Zenit

    Zenit Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 3, 2000
    Above the Tear Line
    Club:
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Historical bantering aside, at this point in time there can hardly be a debate as to which is the "real" Torpedo. Torpedo Moscow clearly not only has history and a greater degree of success on its side (IMHO), but they once again will be a strong side in the RPL during the 2004 campaign. Torpedo-Metallurg/Torpedo-ZIL/Torpedo-(insert new name here) is only in the RPL thanks to the efforts of the Moscow soccer mafioso, and will once again be a prime favorite for the 1st division, if they can even a. find a decent sponsor and b. field a squad.

    Note-The "if you can't say something nice, don't say it at all" portion of this post follows:

    They did have pretty cool green/black kits a few years back, and their logo has always been one of my favorites.
     
  5. Shurik

    Shurik New Member

    Nov 2, 1999
    Baltimore, MD
    And, to make the matters even more confusing, there still is a team called Torpedo-ZIL in Russian football. They play at the amateur level and say they have no plans to seek promotion. And everyone knows how far promises go in Russia.

    So, to summize:

    1) Torpedo Moscow: founded uin 1924 by workers from the ZIL plant, sold in 1996 and are owned by the Luzhniki Stadium (where they eventually moved) since then.
    2) Torpedo-Metallurg Moscow: founded by the ZIL plant as a replacement for Torpedo in 1997. Claimed to be "the real Torpedo" beacuse of the plant affiliation. Sold by the plant to a Siberian metallurgical company in 2003 but play in the old Torpedo Stadium and STILL claim of being "the real Torpedo". May be sold yet again in 2004, this time to the Moscow municipality.
    3) Torpedo-ZIL Moscow: founded by the ZIL plant in 2003 as a replacement for Torpedo-Metallurg, formerly Torpedo-ZIL, which in turn was a replacement for Torpedo. Play in the amateurs and already claim of being "the real Torpedo".
    4) Elvis Presley: dead. Really.
     
  6. Adrian P.

    Adrian P. New Member

    Jul 2, 2003
    Copenhagen Denmark
    It..... It's totally grotesque!
    That sounds like The Wimbledon saga just much worser!

    But I must admit I like the idea of Torpedo playing in Torpedo stadium.

    Weren't Torpedo Stadium one of the first stadiums in world having heating and draining system under the pitch?
     
  7. Shurik

    Shurik New Member

    Nov 2, 1999
    Baltimore, MD
    I can't calim about the world, but it was the first and only stadium in the Soviet Union to have this kind of equipment. For this reason it was often favoured by other Moscow clubs who managed to advance into the spring portion of the European tournaments. However, in its constant battle with the Moscow winter, cold and snow-heavy, the heating system often turned the pitch into a swamp. Still, it was a step in the right direction.
    The Eduard Streltsov Torpedo Stadium (the name of the legendary Torpedo player was added recently) wasn't build until the Seventies, and Eduard Streltsov himself had never played on it.
    Until that time, the old Torpedo usually played in Luzhniki and before that - on the Stalinets Stadium.
     
  8. TORPEDO

    TORPEDO Member

    Sep 19, 1999
    Za nakryityim stolom
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    The time has come to set it straight
    I'll do me best , azohen veit
    Torpedo started since the gevolt
    Here in the States it's called revolt

    When English style to Moscow came
    There was git team that played the game
    They shpil'd with players way up high
    Named Strekoza - means Dragonfly

    From that sheine team tradition grew
    Which is not known to every Jew
    But year by year the squad grew strong
    By 30's it played like a song

    A song of style and eloquence
    Of thought and goals as consequence
    And as they entered the the high division
    They never left ( bet my circumsision (?) )

    They won three titles and seven cups
    Filled with champagne and not the schnapps
    Voronin, Slava , Ivanov
    Prigoda , Saharov , Strel'tsov

    Were their stars and their fame
    Went all through Europe ,but to shame
    Only in Union they could play
    So in Torpedo most did stay

    It 60's it was common sight
    That Luzhniki were packed so tight
    With 100,000 happy fans
    Who hoped to get a Fortune's glance

    And now ? my son I know you'll say
    Who follows proudly on the way
    Of glory that's been paved for them
    With passion , pride and 100 gram ?

    Strel'tsov is dead , Voronin too
    Koz'mich - he sold his soul ; then who?
    There's still a team that plays on through
    In Luzhniki for few and few

    In last 10 years a Cup they won
    And a bronze medal - not the plan
    Yet with tight funds that they attract
    Team fights for glory , it's not an act

    They've beaten Loko and Horses ,Pigs
    Even the Garbage in their own digs
    And the Impostors from Norils'k ?
    Are always slaughtered - git and brisk

    So - the new season will start soon
    The Horses - favourites : Kaken moon
    But there's a fire in my soul
    That all fans tasted even a Pole

    Of hope , of passion and of chance
    Of your team's W's , so let's dance
    A freilih to Torpedo's glory
    And hope next year is a better story.

    Cheers.
     
  9. ProfZodiac

    ProfZodiac Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have way too much time on your hands.
     
  10. Adrian P.

    Adrian P. New Member

    Jul 2, 2003
    Copenhagen Denmark
    Maybe Torpedo has too much time but I will thank him for the very poetic way of describing the history of Torpedo. Thanks :)
     
  11. TORPEDO

    TORPEDO Member

    Sep 19, 1999
    Za nakryityim stolom
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    My friend from Denmark , anytime
    You have a question - pleasure's mine
    And Boston haver - what's to say?
    Post took 12 minutes , vei tsizdrei!

    In al seriousness , Luzhniki's ( IMHO ) is the team that's REAL as in Real Sociedad etc. , and not impostor like Lzhe Metallurg as in unreal Torpedo.
    The team was always known for intelligentsia amongst the fans , and very adventurous ( see attacking ) style of play , frequently involving defenders ( Voronin played libero way before that Kaltenbrunner lookalike ).
    I am very excited about new season , as Torpedo has added 5 Internationals , shedded some ( very ) dead weight , and their youngsters are progressing quite well ( playing on U23, U 20 and U18 squads ).
     
  12. Adrian P.

    Adrian P. New Member

    Jul 2, 2003
    Copenhagen Denmark
    It's good to hear how it is, because I would have pressumed that the team playing in Torpedo stadium would be the true Torpedo, but apparently Torpedo's spiritual home is the Luzhniki. As one always can be enriched on knowledge on this board :)
     
  13. Shurik

    Shurik New Member

    Nov 2, 1999
    Baltimore, MD
    In Russia, stadiums don't hold much meaning.
    Spartak, Russia's most distinguished team, never had its own stadium, not counting a sandlot near a factory where they played in the early 20s.
    CSKA, the current champion, split their time between Dinamo and Torpedo grounds.

    The Strekoza, or "Dragonfly", club (actually, SKZ, meaning "Zamoskvorechye Sport Club") to which TORPEDO alluded in his epic tale, is not a direct anscestor of Torpedo.
    Torpedo's history started in 1924, 1 year after the Moscow Football League was disbanded by Soviet officials. A bunch of players from SKZ, SKS (Simonov Sports Club) and other ex-MFL teams got together and started a team that represented the Proletarskaya Kuznitsa (Proletarian Forge) Workers Club, or RDPK. When this team in turn was disbanded, most of the good players remained together and started playing for the AMO/ZIS team (AMO and ZIS are former names of the ZIL plant).
    In 1936, this club became the founding member of the Torpedo Sporting Society, for automotive industry teams. "Torpedo" was the name of the first Soviet-made car, which is depicted on the logo.

    I also think that the Luzhniki squad is the "real Torpedo" (though not necesarily "royal" like Real Sociedad), but it made a major mistake in 1996, relinquishing the old club symbols. So, the impostors from Torpedo-Metallurg not only play at the Torpedo Stadium but also wear the original kits with the original logo.

    The reasons I couldn't put it into verse are two:
    1) English language hasn't completely succumbed to my fancies yet;
    2) A plot this confusing would require someone with the talent and poetic vision of e. e. cummings.
     
  14. Adrian P.

    Adrian P. New Member

    Jul 2, 2003
    Copenhagen Denmark
    Shurik your English is good as mine not perfect but good. :)

    It's funny you say that the Torpedo in Luzhniki are the real. In England Wimbledon FC Moved to Milton Keynes from London and the fans in protest created AFC Wimbledon staying in London. All Englishmen does not consider The wimbledon in Milton Keynes as the true Wimbledon but the AFC Wimbledon as the true.
     

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