question about the gold cup

Discussion in 'Gold Cup' started by ejo1956, Jul 18, 2005.

  1. ejo1956

    ejo1956 Member

    Feb 12, 2005
    New York
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i was thinking what would happen if colombia won concacaf's domestic tournement. i thought that the winner from every domestic tourny gets a spot into the next confederations cup. so if colombia wins the gold cup, concacaf wouldnt have a representative?
     
  2. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2 scenarios (not sure which one applies):

    1. Runner up goes
    2. A playoff is held between runner up and the team that lost to Colombia in the semifinals.

    I'm not sure there's a 2007 Confederations Cup so it may not matter.
     
  3. spanishfan1

    spanishfan1 New Member

    Jun 25, 2004
    Thats an interesting question
     
  4. acolombi

    acolombi Member

    Mar 20, 2005
    Edmonton
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    It would go to the higest finishing CONCACAF member as Columbia is a guest who won and therefor inelegable to accept that particular prize.
     
  5. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Same would apply if Mexico won Copa America.
     
  6. ChcgoStingInMyBlood

    Jun 15, 2005
    Firstly, of course, CONCACAF would look terribly bad. A C- team from CONMEBOL #4 or #5 wins our confederation tournament.

    I think Jack and Chuck would just meet in a room somewhere and walk out declaring T&T the confederation champion...
     
  7. FIFARay007

    FIFARay007 Member

    Feb 25, 2004
    CT
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I still don't see why we need 2 "guest" teams when we have over 40 countries here in the CONCACAF.
     
  8. Pibe#10

    Pibe#10 Member

    May 1, 2003
    ArmeniA
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    exactly, same thing with México in Libertadores, they are a several clubs that get left out because they take their spots.
     
  9. Balam_Acab

    Balam_Acab New Member

    Dec 22, 2004
    Valhalla
    I am sorry to differ with you, for me there's no such things as "B team, C team", there are 11 men on the field kicking the ball playing for their country.

    As for the question, really really interesting.
     
  10. Atouk

    Atouk BigSoccer Supporter

    DC United
    Apr 16, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    Queens Park Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Confederations Cup has gone to every four years, one year before the World Cup, in the WC host country. So, the next will be in 2009, presumably with the 2007 Gold Cup winner. I'd guess that while a guest could be the Gold Cup winner, the highest-finishing CONCACAF team would be the confederation representative.

    Quote from link above:
    Of course, if the European and South American champs don't choose to take part, there's a possibilty of bringing in some other teams, such as 2005 Gold Cup winner, etc. Turkey participated in the last Confederations Cup as an invited guest based on their World Cup 2002 finish. If a team or two bail, I'd guess there'd be an extra invite or two and the tournament would still be kept at 8 teams.
     
  11. ChcgoStingInMyBlood

    Jun 15, 2005
    Obviously you've read the CONCACAF gold cup statutes. Is that you Leo Beenhaker?

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219159
     
  12. Balam_Acab

    Balam_Acab New Member

    Dec 22, 2004
    Valhalla
    Never read that before but I have always thought about it that way. Of course that refers to my personal opinion.
     
  13. ChcgoStingInMyBlood

    Jun 15, 2005
    I'm just having fun with ya, Balam_Acab, and in principle I agree with you. I don't watch Mexico and say to myself, "Damn, where's Blanco?" or, "Why does Columbia have to experiment like this?" or whatever.

    I just think that the legitimacy of the competition can definitely be questioned. The top CONCACAF teams and the invitees never bring their full squads 'cause the Cup itself doesn't really mean much.

    And it is not so much for me the fact that top players are missing but more about the fact that the teams that are there have a tendency to not have a lot of playing time together, and stupid things happen like the Mexican defensive screw up against Columbia and the ridiculous goals that Costa Rica allowed against Honduras. That kind of stuff borders on the amateurish and I don't think you would see that with the regular squads. Which maybe isn't such a bad thing.

    The Columbian 11 have certainly come together and played with a lot of pride since dropping the first two games and it wouldn't surprise me if they end up winning this thing.
     
  14. SetPeace

    SetPeace Member+

    Jun 22, 2004
    SC Illinois
    Club:
    Torquay United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    On the surface, I agree with your post FIFARay. However, consider that Colombia is ranked 25th by FIFA and South Africa is 39th. The two highest CONCACAF teams that did not qualify for the Gold Cup are Haiti at the 88th spot and El Salvador who are 110th. I don't mind guest teams in the Gold Cup, but it would be embarassing if one of them ever did win it (which they have never done, so far). On the flip side of that, Panama had the lowest ranking of the 12 competing teams (98th), and look at the canaleros now--surprise semi-finalists! I would expect Panama's rating to improve vastly when the August rankings are released. Also, look for Cuba, Guatemala, and Canada to slip a bit.
     
  15. FIFARay007

    FIFARay007 Member

    Feb 25, 2004
    CT
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is all true, but look at Greece at the last Euro. They must have been ranked very very low, but they still (obviously) had a chance. It brought them a lot of glory because it was a low ranked team, upsetting higher ranked teams. If we get rid of the 2 guest teams, we would give 2 more teams, in our confederation, the chance of a lifetime. Great moments are started like that.

    Now if a guest team wins, it completely ruins what little image the Gold Cup already has.
     
  16. ejo1956

    ejo1956 Member

    Feb 12, 2005
    New York
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    this is such a great point. Who would of thought that a weak country like Greece would win one of fifa's most prestigious titles. we should defintely get rid of having 2 guest teams because it fails to give two lower ranked concacaf teams the opportunity too show how good they are in tournements and it does nothing for this region's world credibility
     
  17. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm still torn on this. Without guest teams, the quality of competition for the top Concacaf teams would be lacking. (As for Mexico bowing out against Columbia; it matches the USA's ouster by Columbia in 2000. A good team will lose occasionally to another good team, as you know.) However, I also wouldn't want an invitee to win it.

    So here's the compromise: have 12 Concacaf teams and four invited teams. Four gruoups, one invitee per group. They participate in group play (and the games count for points), but can't play in the knockout rounds. Only Concacaf teams advance to the knockouts.
     
  18. OscarU

    OscarU New Member

    Jul 18, 2005
    Bogota
    That will be stupid.. (sorry) but why you will come for????
     
  19. ZeekLTK

    ZeekLTK Member

    Mar 5, 2004
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Actually there are only 35, but still, that is more than enough to fill a 12 team tournament.

    I don't get why we don't run it like the Euro Cup, Asian Cup, or African Cup though... 16 teams: 4 groups of 4, top 2 from each advance to quarterfinals... no "guest" teams.

    This year (using FIFA ranks to determine the top 16 and balance the groups), the groups could have been:

    Group A:
    Mexico
    Cuba
    Panama
    St. Vincent/Grenadines

    Group B:
    United States
    Guatemala
    Canada
    St. Kitts & Nevis

    Group C:
    Costa Rica
    Trinidad & Tobago
    Haiti
    Barbados

    Group D:
    Honduras
    Jamaica
    El Salvador
    St. Lucia

    And then (again, going by ranks to determine winners) you have a quarterfinal field:

    Mexico vs Trinidad & Tobago
    USA vs Jamaica
    Costa Rica vs Cuba
    Honduras vs Guatemala

    Sure the group stage is a little sub-par, but once you get to the later rounds, it will be an "alright" tournament.
     
  20. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually I believe CONCACAF has 40, but 5 are not members of FIFA (like Martinique, which has made the Gold Cup in the past).
     
  21. FIFARay007

    FIFARay007 Member

    Feb 25, 2004
    CT
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Zeek, I'm with you. Open it up to more teams, cuz it can only help them get better. If more small teams get a chance to play, maybe one day we'll have our own "Greece" win the Gold Cup.
     
  22. Solid444

    Solid444 Member+

    Jun 21, 2003
    This is the most crucial point and I have yet to see an answer for this. Does this Gold Cup even matter at all? I have heard people (posters, websites, commentators) say that the winner of this Gold Cup goes to the Confederations Cup, but I see no proof for this. Are they just misinformed or is this really the case? It would seem a lot more logical that the winner in 2007 would go to the Confederations Cup.
     
  23. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    Greece was ranked low last time around true, but not as low as people might think: #34 overall as of May 2004 and #18 in Europe, which is roughly where Honduras is now.

    If we went to a 16 team, CONCACAF only tournament, the lowest ranked team (best case scenario) would be St. Vincent and the Grenadines at #128.

    They lost on aggregate 37-3 over their last 7 matches played against the stronger teams in CONCACAF (including Mexico, Honduras, Costa Rica and El Salvador.) Considering the current depth of CONCACAF, there couldn't be another Greece from this region.
     
  24. FIFARay007

    FIFARay007 Member

    Feb 25, 2004
    CT
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    granted, the overall quality is lower here, so in that case, keep it at a 12 team tourney. No need to bring in outsiders. ;)
     
  25. Daniel from Montréal

    Aug 4, 2000
    Montréal
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Well, Greece was pretty much the 15th favourite at Euro2004 (in front of Latvia).

    We had Canada in 2000 and maybe Panama this year.
     

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