Question about ref's decision

Discussion in 'Referee' started by greaney, Oct 2, 2002.

  1. greaney

    greaney New Member

    Oct 27, 1999
    Here is one for you that happened to me last Sunday: I am coaching a men's competitive league squad (a low division but pretty good amateur athletes).

    About 2 minutes into the match I see my right midfielder walking around the back of the goal and back over towards our bench. Assuming he is hurt I trot over and find out the center made him leave the field because he had an earring in that he forgot to remove (a stud, if it matters) No problem, he takes out the jewelry and jogs up to the AR at the midfield stripe and waits to be waved on.

    And waits.
    And waits.

    Finally our team gets a throw in. I call out to the Ref to see if we can put our man back in and he doesnt answer. The AR says that its the ref's decision when he can come back in. (dont worry, I knew that)

    We get another throw. I shout this time "Substitution Ref!" And he shouts back "No!" Okay, so now not only is he forcing us to play a man down, he won't let me sub. Of course I was not going to sub I was just going to get our right mid back on the field.

    Another throw-in comes and he ignores me again.

    I look to the AR and ask if my man has been red carded for wearing jewelry. He says no, so I,... well, I sort of demand he be allowed to return to the match. The AR doesnt have a say, which I understand, but I was just trying to make a point.

    After what had to be at least 8 minutes the center waves the player on during the run of play.

    I want to know what happened there. I did not say anything to the center after the match about it. I think our league has, overall very high quality officials and the only time I ever find myself frustrated with them is when other teams berate them and they do nothing about it (my guys know not to screw with the men in black) Do any of you refs recall a situation similar when you decided to punish a team or make some sort of point regarding letting a player back on?

    My right mid has long hair, a beard and a mustache along with the earring, and I wonder if the conservative looking ref just plain ole didn't like the looks of him. Our team is too new to have a bad reputation amongst the officials.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. pkCrouse

    pkCrouse New Member

    Apr 15, 2002
    Pennsylvania
    Although I have not done it myself, I have seen many of my peers do this at the older youth, high school and adult league levels. Typically it is only after they have already told the player to remove the jewelry or replace the inappropriate shinguard during the pregame inspection. However, I've never seen anyone intentionally keep the player off the pitch more than a minute or so - just enough to make the point.
     
  3. Greyhnd00

    Greyhnd00 New Member

    Jan 17, 2000
    Rediculously far nor
    Re: Re: Question about ref's decision

    I cant think of a better way to alienate the players and ensure they think you are an A-hole.
     
  4. pkCrouse

    pkCrouse New Member

    Apr 15, 2002
    Pennsylvania
    Re: Re: Re: Question about ref's decision

    That's one of the reasons I don't do it.
     
  5. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As far as sending them off due to the jewelry, I do this in probably half the teen-age level games I do -- high school and U15 to U17 age groups.

    So many of them have jewelry. I ask the coach if their guys or gals are ready to play -- I almost always get a yes. In my pregame to the players, I mention that if any have jewelry get it removed -- everyone nods. Then at the coin toss, if I have seen players with jewelry and I think they still have it in, I remind the captains that eveyone needs to have their jewelry removed before the game starts -- yes sir all around.

    Inevitably, I'll blow the whistle and then look around to see if the ones with jewelry have gotten it removed, there'll be one or two that haven't. Off they go.

    However, I have never made them stay off beyond the first substitution opportunity. They have to stay put until the first LEGAL substitution opportunity -- in other words, not just a stoppage and not a sub opportunity for the other team, but a point in time when you'd be able to make any other sub.

    In my opinion, the referee in the situation you've described did two things wrong -- denied a substitution when you had a legal opportunity to do so AND, worse, waved a sub onto the field when there was no legal reason to do so. Remember that when he sent this player off, he is now a SUBSTITUTE just like the rest of the guys on your bench -- he is not a PLAYER who happens to be off the field being treated for injury or whatever. In the case of a SUBSTITUTE the law clearly presribes situations under which they may enter the field of play. In the case of a PLAYER, the referee can waive them on whenever he feels like it.

    Imagine if your opponents had a substitute standing there waiting to get into the game along with your guy. The referee waives your guy on during the run of play. Does he also waive the opponent on? I hope not because then there are some other potentially serious problems.
     
  6. greaney

    greaney New Member

    Oct 27, 1999
    Thanks for the input. Yes, neither my player nor myself had any problem about the "send off" over the jewelry. Somebody could get hurt. It was the "no!" to my request to put the player back in.

    It was a little surreal at the time and even the AR looked kind of sheepish when I asked what the hell was going on.
     
  7. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would never do something like this to make a point, and I can't even fathom what the referee's motivation was in this instance. IMO, it can only serve to upset the players.

    As for the above, if you remove a player to fix an equipment issue, he or she does not become a substitute once he or she is removed from the field unless that player is actually substituted. He or she is still a player and you do not need to wait for a substitution opportunity. All you need to do is verify that the player has corrected the problem.

    IMO, by keeping the player off the field, you are forcing that player's team to play short longer than it should.

    Now, if you need to wait for a stoppage to verify that the player fixed what you asked him or her to fix, then fair enough, let him or her wait. However, there is no need to wait until there is a valid substitution opportunity, at least under USSF/Fifa. You can certainly waive a player on to the field during play as well.

    I was also under the impression that we had to wait until a stoppage in play to ask a player to leave the field. Is this correct?

    Let's think of a similar situation. The match is stopped to deal with an injured player. The player has to leave the field, but he does not need to be substituted. Once he leaves the field, he can be waived on at any time once play restarts.
     
  8. pkCrouse

    pkCrouse New Member

    Apr 15, 2002
    Pennsylvania
    Bill, you're right. The referee should instruct the player to leave the pitch at the next stoppage in play. (Of course the referee can say this during play, but the player doesn't leave until the stoppage.) The player must then wait for the referee's permission to return, and may do so at any stoppage in play. (The exception is if the equipment problem is due to blood, in which case he may be beckoned back onto the pitch by the referee even during play.) With an injury, the player may return with the referee's permission, at any time from the touchline, or from any other boundary line during any stoppage in play. In all of these situations, we are not dealing with a substitution situation unless the team subsequently elects to send on a different player to replace the one who was injured and could not return.
     
  9. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If it's a safety issue - like an earring, then the ref may stop the play. I might wait until his/her team regains possession or the ball goes out of play.
     

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