Qatar World Cup - Oranje Victory to Come!

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Brilliant Dutch, Nov 19, 2021.

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  1. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Van Gaal has undervalued his younger players and not giving them an opportunity has been massively frustrating.
    I would much prefer Brobbey holding up the ball and having the strength and pace to cause problems rather than watch the Pin Ball machine Janssen.
    Klaassen is impossible to watch and it’s unbelievable that he’s scored and assisted considering how anonymous he generally is other than his bad touch or passes.
    Dumfries has been very poor.
    Cannot control the ball and provides no combination or crosses and his lack of form really hurts because he’s been a great source of action and production in the past.
    Bergwijn Memphis combo has been so good but given a chance with added dynamic of Gakpo as the 10 very disappointing not to see that collective.
     
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  2. BPBlueSox

    BPBlueSox Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Aug 21, 2003
    Georgia
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Memphis’s lack of form coming off injury is very concerning. This will cost them at some point. And fully agree regarding Dumfries… he’s been very disappointing.

    I really don’t understand why Janssen was in. Thought his one appearance would have been more than enough.
     
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  3. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    You can tell the players have very little faith in LvG's tactics. Everything is slow and tentative
     
  4. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    • US is leading Iran 1-0. US attack both wings with speed. They play direct and fast football. I hope Van Gaal watching USA-Iran game and has a plan as 1 of them will be the opponent.
    • Watching other young players like Foden, Bellingham, Saka, Musiala, Gavi, Pedri given a chance and play well frustrate me. Why the thought of asking young players to play for U21 or calling up to national team but not given any minutes even when your opponent is weak as Qatar, with a 2-0 lead and 20 minutes left dumbfound me? So far the call up of all 3 of Janssen, Weghorst and LDJ seems to be a failure to me, no impact whatsoever.
    • Timber really like to push up in the midfield and again all over the places. I hope Koeman try him for defensive midfield as an option to De Roon. I think he has the most touches among Netherlands player in this Qatar game.
     
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  5. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Any idea what the temperature has been for the 3 games?
    Maybe it’s the heat that is causing this extra slow play, but I don’t think so.
    Oranje not pressing much either and look just sluggish.
    Evaluation of talent by LVG is very questionable and overall frustrating.
    Teams will and should press Oranje especially with De Roon.
    Frenkie expected to bring ball out from the back and play through the lines has far too much responsibility.
     
  6. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    These stats are useless and lack details as far as I’m concerned.
    Blind passing has little quality and or cutting edge. I can’t recall any through balls or killer passes at pace that put defenders under pressure or duress.
    There is talent in this team but this Manager has clearly decided to not use it and is gambling on some bizarre tactics that I cannot figure out.
    USA have many question marks in their team from what I’ve seen and Iran lack quality so we shall see what happens, but Oranje need to start playing and running more no matter who they play.
     
  7. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #1407 Brilliant Dutch, Nov 29, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2022
    USA next.

    If they come out swinging like Ecuador did it could be difficult match
     
  8. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    Reminiscence of Van Marwijk's WC 2010 style... a lot of possessions but very little penetration to the attacking third. Pass and circulate the ball around waiting for a small opening. Hit hard and fast on a counter.

    USA are beatable. They are young and inexperienced, except for their CB Ream who is old and rather slow. Memphis and Gakpo should be able to overwhelm their defense with speed. That being said, their right hand side (Dest and Weah) are fast and tricky. Blind will have to be on his best. Pulisic went off injured after collision when scoring, he did look fine coming back to the field though was subbed off at half-time. He is a dangerous man.
     
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  9. BPBlueSox

    BPBlueSox Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Aug 21, 2003
    Georgia
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    I think the USA will be tough and will be a match like Ecuador… but I think the USA has more quality and organization in the side. I suppose if Pulisic is hurt that will be a big miss. I feel like it’s going to be tight and go either way.
     
  10. BPBlueSox

    BPBlueSox Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Aug 21, 2003
    Georgia
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    I feel like letting USA be confident on the ball and have possession and then strike them with some counterattacks might be more effective. As noted above, they are young and inexperienced - and ceding possession, eating up their attacks with some confident defending - and then striking with the attacking quality of Gapko (and hopefully) Memphis would work. Utilize their naïveté.

    what I’m worried will happen is that holland will hold lots of possession, never break through really, and it’ll be 0-0 until late. And then anything goes.
     
  11. We've now got about the whole of Mexico supporting us against the USA. They forgive the Robben penalty if we eliminate the USA.:D
     
  12. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    They'll never forgive us for that :ROFLMAO:
     
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  13. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  14. MrOranjeBal

    MrOranjeBal Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    Club:
    AZ
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Look at Blind's stats. And what Klaasen did for Gakpo's goal.
     
  15. MrOranjeBal

    MrOranjeBal Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    Club:
    AZ
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    First 20 minutes, I thought the ref was atrocious. Bought. But he grew in the match... Sort of. His ridiculously stickt whistling was one of the reasons the Dutch slowed down.
     
  16. wynaldaisagod

    wynaldaisagod Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Aug 9, 2019
    #1416 wynaldaisagod, Nov 29, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2022
    US-Netherlands (and really Ajax) are the 3 teams I try to watch every match for so just my thoughts before I duck out due to conflict...

    I believe van Gaal's tactics/ideas are based off of not having enough talent to win. He's just trying to grind out results because he doesn't believe they can beat Spain, France, Brazil (IMO easy 3 favorites) and then even the next level of Argentina, England. I think it's dumb-- he doesn't have the right midfield to pull this type of style off. But I do agree this isn't some incredibly talented side.

    The quadrant of the bracket is wide open. Group C/D (outside of France who wont' be in this 1/4) are weak. If Argentina doesn't win their group, the shock semifinalist will come out of this 1/4 (although for some, Netherlands making the semi's is not a shock).

    The US really lack a good 9. I am curious if Berhalter goes with a false 9 because a mobile front the US would give Dutch some major problems-- especially on the Blind side. VVD would eat up any of the traditional 9s the US has. The best players are attackers but one (Reyna) hasn't played due to mysterious reasons. The best attacker - Pulisic - might not be 100%. US actually has a pretty good midfield too that works together. But McKennie has been shaky and really isn't fit. Adams is awesome-- I wish Ajax would've bought him off of RBL.

    I agree with @BPBlueSox -- I would use the US naivety against them. Let them have possession then use Memphis/Gakpo on the counter. Dest gets caught up quite a bit and can't really defend at all. Ream is slow and can be exposed. The Americans don't know how to manage a result/game either.

    Based on what I've seen from both teams so far, I'd say the Dutch should be slight favorites. But neither team has looked incredible.
     
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  17. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Pulisic sent to hospital for possible injury
     
  18. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    From ESPN:
    Netherlands coach Louis van Gaal: "Cody Gakpo is a very young player, he's only been playing for PSV for two or three years ... [he] has everything it takes to become a star and plus he has a wonderful personality because he's open to anything and everything ...

    "We didn't give away many chances, ball possession was better than against Ecuador and the difference is Memphis is playing as he was involved in those two goals. That's the difference. But we have to bring Memphis into the game gradually and Marten de Roon hasn't played for six weeks, so I have had to adjust my vision in such a way as I had to make sure players who weren't fit could join us and now I am so pleased with that decision. That also applied to Matthijs de Ligt and was injured just before the World Cup, but they've all overcome their problems."

    I don't mind starting De Roon and Memphis, but Van Gaal gave no minutes to players such as Simons, Lang or Frimpong. Of course ball possession is better because your opponent is the worst team of the tournament. If this team falls behind or let's say the deadlock is not broken, he will sub in the same players, Berghuis, Klaassen, Janssen, Weghorst and we all know what they can do. If Simons and Lang do not get any minute, what will happen to them when they are sub in and not effective, will it be their faults? This team needs to score first and then keeps slowing the tempo down, passing around boring the opponent to death then attack (does this sound like a better version of Frank De Boer's team?), or wait for counter attack chance. Maybe he is on to something...winning by defense/PK, like Brazil in 94 or Greece in 04.
     
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  19. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Card for Ake was a disgrace.
    Very poor Referee.
    FIFA are a clown organization.
     
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  20. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Dangerous tactics to play with slow guys who don’t play great football.
    I have no idea what VG is thinking, but his disregard for our younger guys is madness.
    This Oranje were not surprisingly lacking in athleticism and speed against Senegal and Ecuador, but even today against such weak opposition the fluidity and lack of progressive passing and movement is clearly missing.
    Is it the heat that’s aiding to the playing difficulties and causing these ugly tactics?
    Need to get things going now in a positive direction but the Manager’s delusional and arrogant ways are halting creativity.
    In comparison Brazil 1994 still had some quality in its squad and were very fortunate to win over Oranje in the heat of Texas.
    Had Gullit played that World Cup I firmly believe we would have won it.
    Greece victory in Euro 2004 really is a stain on the sport which somehow defied logic.
    There was some good football played at those Euros, but not by Greece despite winning the event they get no love or respect for their garbage play.
     
  21. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    Pulisic reportedly texted to his teammates after the hospital visit that he would be ready for Saturday! He may not be 100%, but no way that he will miss a knock-out match. USA also have an injury concern on striker Sargent, though to a much lesser extent.

    Oranje do not have real injury scare - thankfully!! Memphis and De Roon started and played significant minutes after their long injury layoff prior to the W.C. That's an encouraging sign! Really need both to be super sharp.
     
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  22. Kelvin Cheung

    Kelvin Cheung Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    May 13, 2019
    This team sucks even with good players like Frenkie de dong and VVD because of this stubborn manager who never dares to use young players and uses outdated tactics. Full of ineffective passes that rarely trouble the opponent. A mediocre Memphis with so many sloppy passes constantly (even when he was 100%) so heavily trusted explains everything. Louis van Gaal does not need a 26-man squad as he would only use 15-16 players. I am dead with this team and no more watching their game.
     
  23. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    Surely you’re not advocating for Blind based on his stats vs Qatar. Blind shouldn’t be on this team period.
     
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  24. Oranje Agony

    Oranje Agony Member

    Nov 22, 2016
    SF Bay Area
    Yeah, I was thinking of Greece in the 2004 Euros as the analogy. It's the only way Holland could win this WC tournament the way things are going. It won't be won by NL based on talent, tactics, or form.
     
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  25. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #1425 richsavare, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
    Oranje started the match with a little bit of intensity and energy but it had far too much sloppy play from Klaassen and De Roon.
    Dumfries just can’t get anything going positively and was getting frustrated with the very poor officiating of the match.
    Overall after 20 minutes the match was a training ground exercise so Oranje should be well rested as they certainly have not exerted a lot of energy in all 3 of these matches truth be told so perhaps LVG rolling the dice with this tactic.
    Then again who knows what the hell he’s watching or thinking about?
    The middle of the park needs massive improvements and although De Roon works hard to win possession he really cannot go forward with a pass, and Klaassen’s poor touches and bad passes are so clearly not good enough and hurtful to everyone but Van Gaal.
    Klaassen also get in the way often to blocking one of our own shots yesterday, which has happened with him before too.
    His cross (not under any pressure) on the second goal was low and poor coming off the head of a Qatar defender, and Memphis did well to control and strike which the keeper made a good reactionary save that Frenkie was hungry to clean up was good to see.
    Listening to some satellite radio football programs here in the States last night and today with TV coverage by Fox has Oranje getting NO respect from these guys who don’t really know much.
    Nice paying gigs for these incompetent fools that are made up of former Ex US Players who don’t really have a clue, trying to breakdown Oranje squad etc., and to say that they have a true understanding of the team would be a lie.
    Cannot lose to this crap side but the way we’re playing or not playing must change.
     

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