Qatar 2022: News and Analysis Only!

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by bungadiri, Mar 28, 2011.

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  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your argument is that every world cup from 1930 through 2010 was weird, and the 2014 and 2018 cups will be weird. The 2022 cup will be the first normal world cup.

    Mods, how is he NOT trolling here???? I mean, either he's trolling, or he genuinely believes every world cup, played in different cities, are weird.
     
  2. Chastaen

    Chastaen Member+

    Alavés
    Jul 9, 2004
    Winnipeg
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am sure you meant that as astounding logic, just missed by quite a bit. Yes, if the winner of the draw wasn't in it then the draw would have ended up differently. Not exactly rocket science.

    However that doesn't make it necessary to redraw, there are plenty of examples that allow the runner-up to take the place of a winner who has to forfeit their place. Many international competitions do this already.

    Now your opinion may be different, but your opinion is just an opinion the same as everyone else. I don't think it trumps other people's opinions, correct me if I am wrong.
     
  3. england66

    england66 Member+

    Jan 6, 2004
    dallas, texas
    The world cup is not a youth tournament....there are 3-4 days between matches for each country....nobody plays "one day in L.A. and the next in New York".
     
  4. whitecloud

    whitecloud Member+

    Jan 25, 2009
    Gulf Shores, AL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except only one person can't be guilty can they? Qatar is not a democracy. One bid team official could not take independent action to bribe on behalf of the Emir of Qatar. The individual bribes could total $20 million, the larger bribes in infrastructure and pork projects totals in the $100s of millions. Surely, you aren't suggesting one crooked official did all that with the Emir and his government unaware of what was going on in an undemocratic nation?
     
  5. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Look, this is starting to feel like the same merry-go-round the previous threads rode, to no purpose whatsoever. This recent spate of discussion was keyed by news reports of someone claiming to have knowledge of corruption related to the Qatar bid. That's fine. Tossing out hypothetical scenarios that have no basis in any current news reports is categorically different, however, and really does seem like you are just trying to wind people up.

    News reports are the closest things we have to evidence. Please stick to those.

    And, everybody, if you think someone is trolling please use the report post button.
     
  6. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    Yes I do see the difference, I never said I didn't.
     
  7. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    You really should think that you can't punish everyone for one guys mistake in anything in this world. They're two viewpoints. The one's i've given and the one where you just go re-vote without any explanation about the consequences.
     
  8. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    Your the one who brought weird into the process, are you not trolling? I never said every world cup was weird, it's your friends and yourself that say Qatar is weird yet it it's the same as everywhere else.
     
  9. Deathstar

    Deathstar Member

    Apr 5, 2009
    Syd Er Knee
    Club:
    Central Coast Mariners
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Re: Qatar 2022: The dogs are barking

    I don't think it's quite the same. Folks are merely venting their outrage at the travesty of the award of the 2022 WC to a family run estate. The Qatari PR Comsultancy (Druryfire prop.) is like the little Dutch boy trying to stem the flood by putting his finger in the dyke but in his case without much success.

    The Press Association is running this:

    more here
     
  10. --X--

    --X-- New Member

    Feb 8, 2010
    Club:
    Melbourne Victory
    It is incredible that what a number of have been putting forward for 12 months and more,and is obviously finally becoming a reality should be seen as breaking any rules of this forum.

    This is THE BIGGEST STORY FOOTBALL HAS EVER HAD.

    Any attempts to curb debate on this is at the very least anti democratic

    I will continue to post relevant stories released in the worlds press
     
  11. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have misunderstood me. I am not trying to curb legitimate discussion of the subject and I am not trying to prevent anyone from posting news about it. I am addressing the derailing of said discussion. As in the last threads, it's beginning to revolve around one poster.
     
  12. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Qatar 2022: The dogs are barking

    Discussion of new news is fine. It's time to stop venting.

    And it's precisely the endless cycle of many posters trying doggedly to convince one poster who doggedly refuses to be convinced that I am telling people has been done enough that we do not need to see it done again in this thread.
     
  13. City Dave

    City Dave Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Cleveland, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Qatar 2022: The dogs are barking

    There's an easy way to fix that. Well, actually, two of them. One, each poster can do on their own, the other mods can take care of.

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=113637
     
  14. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How would Qataris be punished? Under this HYPOTHETICAL, Qatar didn't deserve the Cup to begin with, their FA bribed their way to it. So taking away a Cup that Qatar doesn't deserve isn't punishment, it's justice. I'll grant you that taking it away in, say, 2020, after years of sunk costs, would be unfair. Taking it away within the next year, assuming for the sake of argument that the allegations are substantiated, isn't unfair.
    I brought "weird" into it for 2 reasons. First, no World Cup has ever been like the Olympics, held in and around a single city. Second, FIFA's guidelines specified that the Cup can't be held in and around a single city. The proposal for the 2022 Cup is clearly a singular outlier, which is pretty much the definition of weird.

    You then responded that having games in different cities is "weird." I pointed out that that has been the practice for every Cup so far, and for the next 2 cups as well.

    But as our mod has pointed out, that's just rehashing old arguments. At this point, the only news is with regards to the emergence of specific allegations. Let's see how those allegations play out.
     
  15. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except, it wasn't just "one guy's mistake." The allegations are that the bribes came from a member of the Qatari bid committee. Any actions of such an official reflect on the committee as a whole. And in a place like Qatar, the directive to use bribery comes from the very top.

    I'll give you another example- under NCAA rules, if a college football coach is found to have been offering prospective players bribes, the entire program gets punished. That's the only way to deal with corruption. If the only person who gets punished is the actual briber, then all that a corrupt organization needs to do is hire someone to be the designated bribe-giver. If he gets caught, they just fire him and give him a golden parachute on the way out, and the corrupt organization still gets to enjoy the fruits of the corruption.

    Do you really think that only punishing the guy who delivers the briefcase full of cash is an effective approach to fighting corruption?
     
  16. --X--

    --X-- New Member

    Feb 8, 2010
    Club:
    Melbourne Victory
    ;)

    As long as we have a thread to discuss this subject I'm happy.It is and always has been a totally legitimate and extremely important topic as you know and the cumulative knowledge between posters here is second to none.Whilst some points may seem like speculation from time to time to the newbie they usually have linkable stories to them that many of us just can't be bothered re linking everytime someone questions the validity of what might seem like an outrageous claim.

    Q22-you just can't make this stuff up-we have never seen corrupton on this scale before-certainly in sport
    Now its time for the truth to be validated!!
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think this is what the moderator is trying to clean up!! Let's be clear here...at this point, it's alleged corruption.

    Alleged.
     
  18. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Imagine, though, if England had won, that those exco men decided football fans could wait for a World Cup in Russia. Would anyone in authority now be protesting about Fifa corruption? Would the FA not be rolling out the red carpet in Milton Keynes, Bristol and Plymouth for Blatter, Bin Hammam or any other Fifa dignitary gracious enough to visit? If the World Cup was coming here, with its mouthwatering £3bn from the attending crowds, it is a touch difficult to imagine the FA abstaining from the presidential vote.


    The FA claims it did so because, essentially, the Triesman allegations have just come to light. But Triesman said the allegedly unethical requests were made to him in October 2009, 19 months ago. After that the FA, far from registering any disapproval, saw nothing, heard nothing, did nothing and attacked as "unpatriotic" the media. The FA now claims the moral high ground for abstaining, but declined an invitation to support an alternative reform candidate.


    Quite why Dingemans has been given only two weeks to inspect a two-year car crash has not been adequately explained. It is unlikely he will find solid evidence to corroborate what Triesman has said Warner, Leoz, Texeira and Makudi allegedly asked the then FA chairman for. The more knotty question is whether the QC will be bold enough to ask what happened within our FA, the world's original football governing body, and what its decision-makers knew. What the FA, and English football, need now is not empty gestures but the unspun, uncomfortable truth, then reform.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/...og/2011/may/20/fa-world-cup-2018-sepp-blatter
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    If 1 guy is found guilty from an investigation, then this investigation is basically telling us that everyone else was innocent, so how could you punish the innocent? Is this how you world works?

    If this guilty person was given orders from above then the above is guilty aswell. So, yes you would have a case to take it further and take the tournament away.

    But like you say, is it effective to only punish the guy who held the briefcase? Yes it is. An investigation would surley unveil who gave him that briefcase and then you punish them, and it goes on as far up the ladder as possible to the point of a full banning.

    But at the moment, there's only allegations against people who aren't on the Organising Commitee, and the whistleblower in Qatar hasn't even whistleblowed yet, so how you find the whole of Qatar guilty from no nws is beyond me.
     
  20. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    You can't one minute say it's an allegation and the next say they bribed there way. Which one is it? You can't be on both sides.

    You obviously didn't read my response on page 16 of this discussion where I did say the tournament should be cancelled if found that the alleagtions are true. I'm with you. I wouldn't award 22 to another nation, I'd move the cycle on. You never responded, I guess you didn't read it and thats the problem, short attention spans ruin this thread.
     
  21. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But you do need to understand that this thread is being held to a tighter standard than the previous ones on the topic. Making claims that this is the biggest story ever in the history of the sport, and asserting Qatar's guilt absent proof is mere provocation.

    This is not a thread to house complaints by posters from the countries whose bids were unsuccessful. Nor is it a thread for people who want to tell us how bad Qatar is. There are other places on the site for that and this thread gets very problematic when it heads in those directions. This is a thread for the discussion of the news about WC 2022 as it unfolds.
     
  22. TheTreasurer

    TheTreasurer Member

    Nov 6, 2005
    Perth, Australia
    Australia to Rebid for 2022

    Rumors are ouyt of control here in Aus saying that the widespread corruption against Qatar extends well beyond what is known pretty much will force FIFA to strip Qatar strip.

    Well reported rumor here in Aus is that the Australian bid team has been re-established in preparation.
     
  23. whitecloud

    whitecloud Member+

    Jan 25, 2009
    Gulf Shores, AL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Australia to Rebid for 2022

    The USA is going to put on a terrific 2023 Rugby World Cup(wishful thinking) while FIFA gnashes their teeth and counts the lost billions. I kind of hope the USSF makes a statement and doesn't rebid.
     
  24. madmatt621

    madmatt621 Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Australia to Rebid for 2022

    I would be "Okay" with the Aussies getting the '22 WC. Not because Qatar getting stripped of the WC, but I can actually see myself going to Australia.

    I don't think the USSF will make a statement until after Qatar gets stripped of the '22 WC.

    edit: Maybe the USSF could look into hosting the FIFA U-20 World Cup (never hosted) or the FIFA U-17 World Cup (never hosted).
     
  25. Deathstar

    Deathstar Member

    Apr 5, 2009
    Syd Er Knee
    Club:
    Central Coast Mariners
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Aussie Hatchetman cautiously optimistic

    Read more..
     

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