As an AR you are taught to stand at attn. with your flag rasied when you see a foul or infringment or whatever. You are also taught not to lower your flag or move for that matter until wavied down by the CR or the CR accepted you decision and stops play (this is when the AR give a signal to what has happed i.e. offside.) With 5 Referees I think there was a real communication break down. I don't know which AR was flagging but even it was behind the back of the CR the other AR should have mirrored it. The CR should periodicly look towards his AR even if play is not near them. May be they need to read our fourm on "secret AR signals." By the way who one? Did the goal make a difference in the winner?
[Small thread hijack] I understand the part about holding the flag up until acknowledged, in one way or another, but at what point should you give up on this? Obviously, this wouldn't work in this scenario, as the issue must be dealt with, but this was raised at the recert clinic last weekend. What about offside? If I'm an AR and the ref honestly doesn't see me put up my flag, I should put down my flag when the defense gets possession back, right? Or at least, wouldn't that be logical? If a goal came of the offside infraction, that's something completely different, but if not, what does an AR who hasn't been noticed do? Sorry for the hijack.
here is mr allen's entire answer: USSF answer (December 16, 2004): We are a bit confused, but willing to proceed. Let's take it in order: Do you mean that (1) a player already on the field has exchanged positions with the goalkeeper, or that (2) the team has inserted a new player, dressed like the other field players and removed the goalkeeper altogether, without the permission of the referee? Or do you really and truly mean that (3) the refereeing team was so "unobservant" that they allowed a substitution to take place, but did not realize that the new player entering the game, not wearing the appropriate uniform, was replacing the goalkeeper? And please tell us, if the referee and assistant referees missed the lack of appropriate uniform, how would they know which was the new goalkeeper?? (1) If it was simply a swap of positions, then the correct action is to wait until the next stoppage and caution both players for unsporting behavior. The goal is scored and the restart is a kick-off. (2) If a new "player" has entered as goalkeeper and the original goalkeeper has left the field (both without permission of the referee), we have a different kettle of fish: Caution and yellow card to the new "goalkeeper" for entering the field without the referee's permission. Caution and yellow card to the goalkeeper for leaving the field without the referee's permission. No goal. Restart with a goal kick. (3) If it was a true substitution in which the goalkeeper left the field and someone came on without the distinctive jersey, then there was no one on the field designated as a keeper. In this case, despite the fact that it was the referee's fault, because Team A was not playing with a goalkeeper they have been playing in violation of Law 3 and no goal can be scored. The player must be cautioned and shown the yellow card for unsporting behavior and the game restarted with a goal kick.
Offside is negated once the defense gets controll of the ball, so a that point you would drop the flag and hustle to get back into position. Then at halftime, make sure the CR knew what happened cause he blew it by not seeing you.
"No goal can be scored." Does this mean the referee can go back and disallow a goal even if the team without a gk has kicked off (restarted) the game after the goal? I know that some people responding to this thread thought that all play was "void" once the team lacked a gk. But I would think that we could only go back to the last restart???
You have til the next restart to change a decision. My take on this case is that the decision was that a goal was scored. Once the kickoff occurs you cannot change that decision.
the original post does not indicate that a restart (kickoff) has occured. i agree we can only go back to the last restart for any penalities. so, in this case, disallow the apparent goal, yc the last player to enter (in place of the keeper), and goalkick for the defense. had we not discovered our error until after an ensuing kickoff, the goal would stand, still yc the last player to enter (in place of the keeper) and restart with why we have now stopped play or play stopped on its own.
First, high schools have their own governing body for sports because its easier for them and because it helps the liability positions of the schools and some of the rules reflect this. Second, they make up their own rules because they can. Third, many involved in high school sports don't understand the game and need black and white where only grey exists under Fifa. Lastly, because they can.
I am amazed that there are so many posters here calling for disallowing the goal and/or carding the substitute. How can a ref who screws up the sub then make the suspect team pay for the ref's mistake? How obtuse. What about the fabled Law 18? The decision in this case is completely lacking in common sense. And if you are so wrapped up in adhering to the letter of the law, I can guarantee you there was something about the uniform color that "distinguishes" it from others since all uniforms will show some very slight variation in color, different stains etc..., so that the ref could claim to have been able to distinguish the keeper's uniform from the others (not exactly an explicit standard for that). That argument would be as much BS as saying, "Well, I allowed the sub, but now that something happened and the other team is complaining I'm gonna disallow your goal for you..."
Even if the substitution was improperly condoned by the referee, it was outside the rules for the team to make it. The team initiated the substitution, not the referee.
This has never happed to me before, but I would assume the proper time to put down the flag is after the next restart. This is because after a restart in play the referee can not correct his choice. Offside is cancled when the player has returned to the onsides position or is not invovled with the play anymore. This may not be officially and professionaly correct but If you haven't been noticed i'd snap and wave your flag. Also try shouting to get his attn.
Clearly, if the play has continued and for whatever reason, an infraction that at the time was relevent to the game has clearly become irrelevent you drop your flag and hustle to get into position. This reminds me of a state cup semi final when I was the AR. A cross came into the box and- from my angle was clearly handled by a defender, but her body position was such that the center couldn't see it. I flagged for the fould not realizing that ball has revounded to an attacking player who shot on goal and had the shot partially deflected by the keeper such that it was very hard to see if the ball had fully crossed the line or not. Clearly, I made the mistake of missing a potential advantage call, but even if that had not been the issue, the decision to hold a flag when the center was not calling it meant that I was out of position to help on the key issue-did the ball cross the line. The moral I took from this story was that even though it may not look pretty, you can always flag late if the foul effects the game, but its awfully hard to get into position if waving your flag has taken you out of it,
1) As the single and final arbiter of the Laws of the Game the CR's acceptance of the sub implies that the sub was legal vis-a-vis factors subject to interpretation by the ref - such as whether the uniform can be distinguished. 2) The sub was legal, the uniform was not. Would you disallow a goal because on the re-start you noticed a defender was not wearing shinguards?
Personally, I find your technical reasoning very convincing. But apparently the USSF (via Jim Allen) disagrees. To me, the key is that the ref saw the sub come on for the GK and did nothing, thereby "accepting" the sub. Maybe a different story if the substitute came on when the ref was distracted by tieing his shoelace or dealing with some other problem? As to your point about carding a player after the ref virtually invited him to go the field without the gk jersey: I believe that the rule says that you card a player for substituting without permission; here the ref apparently GAVE permission (albeit wrongly). In my opinion, a card is not proper under the literal reading of the law and is unfair.
you are not carding for the uniform infraction, you are carding for not having a proper team on the field. there is no designated keeper in this play. it is similiar to having too many players. and no, you can't just say "that one is the keeper," he/she has to be outfited properly to be the keeper. and it is different from an equipment problem. it is a proper player problem (like the alliteration?). this could also be true if, when players are replaced and not permitted reentry, a replaced player reenters (subs) without the ref crew realizing that he/she should not be allowed to reenter. if we figure that out before the kickoff, disallow the goal, yc the illegal sub for usb, restart with goalkick or corner kick depending on who touched ball last before it entered the goal.