Hi, I'm your father. You never saw me. I never spoke to you but I wrote you this incredibly long letter. In this letter I'll tell you all about my other children and their relationship with me. Well, actually I didn't write the letter. Other people did. I wrote my letter in a language nobody's really sure about and it's been translated a million times. Places and dates don't really correspond, but never mind that. You have to believe in me. If you don't you'll burn in hell. You must believe I am good and almighty. I will never give you any proof of my existence, except that letter that other people have written about me. Just believe in me. Okay? If you believe in me you'll see me. If you still don't see me you're not trying hard enough.
so you are saying that if somebody lead a totally virtuous life, devoting themselves to helping the sick & needy etc, but they didn't believe in god, then they'd be sent to hell? Again, what about an child that may have been born into an atheist family and died before he had time to form his own opinions? would he be sent to hell too? I'm sorry, but all this "believe in me or die in a fiery hell" stuff seems as outdated as the medieval linguistic style it is written in. Who knows what the original texts said and what twists, intentional or otherwise, have been added by those who have translated it. Jesus did not die for my sins. He died (assuming he existed and he was who he said he was) as a heretic (in Roman eyes). Christians went on to kill heretics hundreds of years later, which judging by the tone of your answer, is something you regard as a good thing.
Actually, it probably has more to do with the immigration policy of G.B. and allowing the people who lived in their colonies (Pakistan, India, etc.) into the UK. Actually, since God is love, many of us experience him. Many are in communion with him now. In the afterlife, I would image the experience, the love, is much more intense, to the nth degree. That's considered Paradise. Just the opposite would be no love. Constant hate expressed at and to you for eternity. If he was a better writer I would've understood his point. Of course, you're making me look up Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 instead of providing the passages here, and I'm too lazy to look it up, so it's partially your fault I'm missing your point.
I know of no "Christians" who killed "heretics." I am aware that the Catholic church did persecute and murder Jews, Muslims, and Protestants. I do not consider Catholics "Christians" for reasons I mentioned above. Catholics believe in salvation by works or filthy rags. Probably Christians have, in the past, killed based on their religion. I find no good thing in that. Assuming Christ was who he said he was, he did die for your sins. No one lives a totally virtuous life to answer one question and to answer the other, I believe God gives grace to those who do not have the capability to understand, but I do not have any scripture to back that up. But I do know the secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. Deuteronomy 29:29 So there are some things that are not known. Notice the scripture said forever. This sounds like a promise that He would preserve His Word for His children. There are are other passages similar to this one that talk about the preservation of His Word. If GOD is who he says he is, I believe that he would keep his Word pure.
The opposite of love is not hate. It's indifference. Sorry - I thought it was clear that the two passages were Jesus' so-called overriding commandments, verbatim. So you can't really credit JC for coming up with them. As for Pascal's Wager....man, there's another blight on religious thinking. Fortunately, ever since Pascal came up with that thing, it has been fairly comprehensively refuted by both skeptics and believers. The funniest refutation is probably from Terry Pratchett, who portrayed his fictionalized Pascal surrounded by angry gods in the afterlife saying "We'll show you what we think of Mr. Clever Dick around these parts...."
You obviously don't follow Leicester City much then... That's why there is currently a "Kick Racism Out Of football" campaign going on in England, right? Anyway, my point was to get into a pissing match over who is more racist. It was to point out that racism is still alive and well in both places and is one factor in judging class in both the UK and US, despite what some people on both sides of the Atlantic would like to think.
http://www.catholic.org/clife/prayers/sacrmnt1.shtml "The doctrine of the sacraments is the doctrine of the second part of God's way of salvation to us." Baptism Penance/Reconciliation The Eucharist Confirmation Matrimony Holy Orders Extremunction These sound like works to me.
>>> You think tooth decay is evil? >> So God just made suffering because he likes it? >> What kind of God is that? > Try flossing. So there is an element in the universe that God does not control, and that has no bearing on our salvation or our purpose, and we humans simply have to deal with it ourselves. > So God can't change his mind? If he is perfect, he would never need to. > Then we have nothing further to discuss. You > have made your choice and I respect your choice > not to believe. Someone asked me to show there is no God. As I explained, I cannot really do that. But I have shown that a God that is in total control of the universer does not exist, and I have shown that a God that is totally just does not exist, and I have shown a God that is perfect does not exist. If I could just get a better description of "God" I can go on down the line.
Actually spejic, I would have replied the tooth decay is most likely a human-induced woe: bad diet, lack of vitamins, poor dental hygene. To Dan Loney, thanks for the clarification. Hadn't had my morning tea. But I disagree with another point. Indifference is the middle of the spectrum with pure love at one end and pure hate at the other.
No, ya didn't. Fact is you don't know. Can GOD make a mountain so big that he can't move it? Yup, I've heard them all before but just because your little mind can't comprehend something as big as GOD doesn't mean GOD doesn't exist. Humans are finite beings. Our lives begin and end. Who are we to understand an infinite being?
I'm sorry, but that's a very poor argument. So you're saying that somebody who doesn't believe should just believe anyway, just in case? That wouldn't make someone a believer, it would make them a hypocrite and a liar. When you hear of people in Muslim countries being stoned to death etc do you not think that is wrong? Were you not glad that the Taleban and it's regime were overthrown? But what if their way is the correct way god means everyone to live? You don't live your life like that as you don't believe in doing so, so if they are right then under your interpretation of who gets into heaven you'll be going to hell. Of course you can believe what you like, but just beware that there could be consequences.
> Actually spejic, I would have replied the tooth > decay is most likely a human-induced woe: bad > diet, lack of vitamins, poor dental hygene. But why does it exist? There isn't eye rot which is somewhat helped by brusing them every day. Don't you think that a world where teeth did not get cavities would be just as good at figuring out which person gets salvation and which heaven? And it isn't really human-induced anyway. My father never gets cavities even though he went for decades in his youth without brushing or visiting a dentist. And here I am without a whole molar in my head.
> No, ya didn't. Fact is you don't know. Do I know there is a god or gods? No. Do I know if there is cloaked Kilgon Bird of Prey in orbit around the earth right now, impervious to all current modes of detection? No. But it seems pretty logical to ignore such things. > Yup, I've heard them all before but just because > your little mind can't comprehend something as > big as GOD doesn't mean GOD doesn't exist. > Humans are finite beings. Our lives begin and > end. Who are we to understand an infinite being? If that is true, how do you know anything about God, such as that he demands worship?
Maybe you should reread what you clipped from catholic.org. I'll help you out... "The doctrine of the sacraments is the doctrine of the second part of God's way of salvation to us." [emphasis added] Catholics believe that both faith and works are required for salvation. Perhaps you should try reading http://www.catholic.org/clife/prayers/beliefs.shtml Additionally, don't most branches of Protestantism offer the sacraments of baptism and communion? Do you consider taking communion a "dirty rag"? It seems to me that professing to know god, but making no attempts to serve said god thru good works, is rather hypocritical. Your friendly neighborhood "recovered" Catholic, Brian
That's just TV view of religion. I don't decide who can achieve the salvation, neither you or TV, NOT EVEN JESUS. I believe he is more like a like a "lawyer" who will defend us in the day of the judge. The only think that I can tell you are my beliefs based on what Jesus has told us. I believe that God have a especial consideration to those who can't achieve the salvation due his ignorance about. But the christians had already made a very good promotion of him, so isn't much room for that option on this days. If you know about him, and you still don't believe in him, you are denying him... which I think its the greatest sin. If you are aware of the sacrifice of Jesus for our salvation, and you don't believe on it, you are denying Christ. So, if you deny Christ and God and everything that they have made for us, on the day of the judge, what will stop Christ and God of denying you and all your good actions in life? Remember, "You must effort to pass through the narrowest door" if you want to be saved.
) I just write it like a curiosity. I don't know what have the be refused about it because the idea its very simple. Can you write a better quote about it? Of course that my faith isn't based on that thing.
> I don't know what have the be refused about it > because the idea its very simple. What is wrong with Pascal's Wager is that it is too simple. It only list 2 possibilities out of many. If there are multiple gods, how do you know which one to pick? Maybe the god you pick is not real, and it pisses of the real god and he sends you to extra-bad hell while sending atheists to purgatory. Maybe the god does not like worshipers, and send them to hell while sending free-thinkers to heaven. Nothing in Pascal's wager tells you what kind of god(s) exist or what their natures are. And there is a cost to worshiping a god. I like my Sundays free, thank you very much.
Ephesians 2:8&9 - By grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of GOD, not of works, lest any man should boast. Communion is an act of worship and fellowship. It is done as a remembrance to the Lord Jesus Christ. Harmony and obedience are other reasons why it should be done. But it in no way is it a 1st, 2nd, or 20th part or step to be saved. Baptism is done in obedience to Jesus' command and as a public commitment to identify with Jesus Christ, not only in his baptism by water, but in his life in the Spirit and in his death in suffering love. But again this does not get you saved. I agree with you that it is hypocritical to profess Christ but not to back it up with works but it is important to know that works cannot get you into heaven. Faith and works should be inseperable. You know tree by it's fruits.
If someone believes there was a man called jesus who was the son of god, then they'd be pretty damn stupid not to believe in god. On the other hand is you don't accept as fact that there was someone called jesus who was the son of god then doubt is rational. But even if there is a god, and let's hope there is, why are there so many different and conflicting ways of worship about when surely god would be giving them all the same message? You can say that people interpret the message differently, but in that case how much of what you take as gospel (for want of a better word) is correct? Also, as a bonus question, why is 25th of December regarded as religiously significant? I don't mean Christmas day, I mean the date itself.
For the firsts question, all depends if you accept Jesus Christ or not. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ was to establish a new alliance between the men and god, he sacrificed for all the humanity. So, if you believe in Christ you must search god's will through Jesus teachings. If you believe in the christian god, an you haven't read the bible, I strongly recommend to you to read at least The New Testament and think on what is written on it. I think that there ate different forms to achieve the gods favor, but all are through Jesus and his teachings. I want too tell you something. In the television's religion, you get punished by your bad actions with the hell, every one else goes to heaven. But In the real religion, you have to win the invitation to the glory of god, every one else goes to hell. (what ever hell is). And for the second question, in december 25 we celebrate the birth of Jesus. it is the exactly date? I really dont care.