Proposal to renovate Silverdome into 30,000 seat SSS

Discussion in 'Detroit' started by lfcli30, Aug 5, 2010.

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  1. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Lafayette, Louisiana
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you seriously think that you know so much more than those who put this plan together that you're the first one to think of all this?
     
  2. Sempuukyaku

    Sempuukyaku Member+

    Apr 30, 2002
    Seattle, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm going to bring up this point again. And if I get slammed, I understand. So please apologize for my ignorance.


    I still DO NOT UNDERSTAND why the existing structure cannot be used, with the upper decks tarped off like we have in Seattle. I've heard the arguments in the Detroit forum, but they seem like they're coming from a daydream "soccer experience" standpoint instead of a logical and practical standpoint. If there's something glaring I'm missing, please let me know.


    Is the building too old, perhaps? I just don't understand.
     
  3. lfcli30

    lfcli30 Member

    Jun 21, 2005
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He wants three venues. It's that simple.
     
  4. irishapple21

    irishapple21 Member

    Apr 4, 2005
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    He can make more money by splitting it into parts. Plus, he can run multiple events on the same day.
     
  5. ColombieUSA

    ColombieUSA New Member

    Jun 2, 2009
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I have never been tempted to visit the Michigan Area before in my life...

    ...but if they somehow get this done, I will go up for road trips every summer to see my Fire get three points. :D
     
  6. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Lafayette, Louisiana
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The biggest reason is that the lower bowl and club level add up to about 50,000 seats. Tarping off the upper level would still leave too many seats. Also, the slope of the lower bowl is very shallow, especially compared with Qwest, so any similarity would be nominal at best.
     
  7. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC

    cool. i understand the long view. it was only meant as a flip sarcastic comment. i hear that sort of thing goes on around here.

    it was just a pretty weird thing to see in print as a quote. shows a bit of a disconnect from perhaps the state of soccer currently in cities all around the country. the days of 15K being a "good" or "successful" attendance for a soccer game of a high level (MLS or big friendly) are long gone in this country. the days of being happy with losing only a "bit" of money as "successful" are long gone too. he probably just needs to readjust his standards to the new reality of soccer being a much bigger and more popular sport in the US.
     
  8. Scott e Dio93

    Scott e Dio93 New Member

    Jul 1, 2006
    Montevideo, URU
    Detroit isn't a city, anymore. Theres more empty houses than people.
     
  9. Sempuukyaku

    Sempuukyaku Member+

    Apr 30, 2002
    Seattle, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    GOT IT. Thank you.


    Too many "bad for atmosphere!!!" comments and not enough sensible comments. That makes sense now. In that case you could still potentially tarp off more seats, but it'd be easier to just build a new stadium.
     
  10. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    no. i didn't say that. that whole reading thing seems to ellude you again. i asked a question, or followed one up, on a topic that up until that point hadn't been addressed. one that people had been ignoring in their speculation of whether this would or wouldn't work and how easy or not easy it would be. the snow bowl factor is an interesting factor. obviously the people designing this have and will think about it and address it but we are not those people and we are discussing in this forum our layperson (or expert in some cases) take on how and if it would be feasible.

    again. if you don't like anything other than blind agreement with your sentiments why are you on a forum?
     
  11. KazooWilly

    KazooWilly Member

    Jul 28, 2010
    Nice work! Problem is, the lower bowl - alone - in the Silverdome is 42,000 seats. But, cool photoshop, nonetheless.
     
  12. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I care less about the fans and more about a 60 psf snowload on an field that's been elevated up to the bottom of the top bowl and the same snowload on concrete decks that were never designed to be in the weather. Not to mention the stadium doesn't have an internal drainage system so all the rainfall/snowmelt water will be heading down to the "indoor facilities".

    A lot.

    That would be falling on this "roof" where the field is, which would have to have the appropriate structure to support said loads, not to mention the drainage issues and the exposure of the decks to weather.

    Easy solution. Don't remove the roof. Difficult and costly solution, lots of work on the interior of the bowl for weather proofing, drainage collection and structural work.

    Well that's the problem with these conceptual things. Us Architect's will tell you all kinds of things that are "possible", with the disclaimer that there are dozens of unforeseen issues that have to be solved with green paper.

    racist :p

    Because you know, lopping off the top is just as easy as fixing up the bottom.

    I see the interior issues being mostly as high winds come over the top of the stadium and have a Venturi effect that could damage the upper parts of the walls because they were never designed to take wind from both directions or have a vacuum. They essentially become a great big parapet wall.

    It would have to be a damned beefy roof and structure, which you would have to build outside the existing structure and cantilever over or punch structure through the existing. Both very expensive, and that still doesn't mitigate the snowload on the structure holding up the field.

    And incur the ire of soccer purists.

    A 35 year old building that didn't get any maintenance for 5 years is going to be a huge operating expense compared to a new facility. This stadium, as is, has to have very large HVAC and air handling equipment to hold the roof up. That's something Qwest doesn't have to worry about.
     
  13. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And was never designed to be exposed to the elements or deal with rain/snow falling to the great big hole in the ground.
     
  14. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Lafayette, Louisiana
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Says the guy who went into the Detroit forum and labeled anyone who disagreed with his opinions, which he laughingly labeled "facts," to be "delusional." :rolleyes:

    My question to you is, why are you speculating on "whether this would or wouldn't work," based on problems that have obviously already been addressed? Assuming that you think that they have not been addressed isn't exactly a huge stretch of the imagination, especially considering your previously demonstrated intellectual shortcomings.
     
  15. Nic1

    Nic1 New Member

    Aug 3, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    It's become obvious that this guy who wants to invest in MLS should throw away his pipe dreams of using a building he bought for nothing for soccer. BigSoccer.com has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Detroit is a vast wasteland with too many black people and the engineering challenges are equivalent to that of the Manhattan Project or the Apollo Program. Obviously the people that he hired have no idea that there is snow in Detroit. I hope this gentleman knows how we have saved him millions of dollars.
     
  16. Sempuukyaku

    Sempuukyaku Member+

    Apr 30, 2002
    Seattle, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Gotcha. This makes sense along with SYoshonis' response. Thanks a bunch.
     
  17. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who's sock are you?
     
  18. lfcli30

    lfcli30 Member

    Jun 21, 2005
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Undersoil drainage is relatively simple, I wouldn't be too concerned about that. The structure's ability to withstand snow is the biggest issue here. Drainage can be fixed with proper planning.

    Taking me back to my fluid dynamics classes (ugh). For high end winds, absolutely that would be a concern.

    Which is probably the real reason this guy wants to split it up into three different venues. I'm assuming that whatever is used to separate the two venues in the lower bowl will have to serve some sort of load bearing purpose. Heavy, wet snow (accompanied by the obvious ice) would create such a strain on a flat roof that it couldn't be done without multiple support structures underneath. I'm glad I'm not the engineer designing this.

    As for the cantilevered roof, that isn't necessarily the only option. Suspension could work, and would require less steel.


    The horror.
     
  19. Sakatei

    Sakatei Member

    Jun 24, 2007
    Is there some kind of end-around achieved by not tearing down and building anew?
     
  20. carnifex2005

    carnifex2005 Member+

    Jul 1, 2008
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    I'm guessing only the owners know. I'd be shocked if they didn't a business plan for all contingencies and since this is their money and not public money they are spending, we probably will never know.
     
  21. THOMA GOL

    THOMA GOL BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 16, 1999
    Frontier
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OSHA! Oh Shit! :D

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Kibby

    Kibby Member

    Dec 1, 2003
    Ottawa
    It frustrates me hearing about Canadian businessmen getting involved with Soccer clubs in foreign countries but having no part of the game here at home.

    From the guy in MTL trying to buy Liverpool, to the guy in Ottawa with a large chunk of Millwall. It goes on and on... many many more cases that I just can't specifically think of off the top of my head right now.

    This isn't so bad as it's in the MLS and right across the border but still... I wish some of these people would also pursue their passion at home.
     
  23. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would. A normal field on the ground is expected to percolate the majority of the water into the soil stratum below down to whatever level the water table is. On this type of field, it's 100% drainage.

    This will require additional planning, well beyond the normal drainage system. It's essentially a "green roof" and while those are all the rage, no one is using one as a football field and they really haven't been around long enough to see their impact as a part of a building system, particularly the removal and replacement.

    People are shocked by how little math you actually need to be an architect. That's why we hire engineers.

    And the scale of this structure is what limits what you can build below it. The more space you dedicate to "open", the more open span you need and you increase the depth/size of your structural members, which limits your floor to floor height.

    You still run into the same problem of what to suspend it from. It's pretty much impossible to do without punching through your existing structure/foundation or going over it.
     
  25. rocketeer22

    rocketeer22 Member+

    Apr 11, 2000
    Oakton,VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Silverdome to be renovated into 30,000 seat SSS

    I wasn't sure about the "dome". Not like I just read an ASCE article about the structure.

    As for the Green Credit, just a warm and fuzzy. I work on projects in federal buildings and it is such the rage ;)
     

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