promotion and relegation*

Disagree. MLS is often compared to J-League of Japan and A-League of Austrailia for the similarities in many aspects. J-League started pro/rel, A-League thinking about starting it soon.

Agree. Need very good stability before staring pro/rel.

 

why not? I hope they would.

MLS was inquiring about buying USL from Nike. They didn't seem really serious, but certainly showed some interest.

 

DCU1996, I know you hope it. But this league is run by smart businessmen, and your dream scenario is going to stay a dream. Every single revenue source goes down once you implement this system. I know you like to compare us to leagues like the J-League for some unknown reason, but you have to understand how the business structure works before you can be convinced that you know how to fix it. You will probably do everyone a favor by just admitting that you don't know anything about business, you are a fan, and that you would like to see it happen but because you don't understand the business side of things your hopes not ever become reality. This structure while strange has taken franchise values up 400% in some markets within 5 years. This level of success is not only unprecedented in the US soccer market but I think you couldn't find any league on the planet with franchise values growing at that rate. It is working, if you have ideas to make the league better we should at least keep them in the realm of reality.

MLS never once said that they were looking to buy USL to implement your fantasy scenario. They did what every single smart business would do, and that is inquire about the sale. See how much it is worth, how much they were offering, and see if there was value in it. I bet there were highly interested in their balance sheet as well. They could have created an affiliate minor league system possibly if they were seriously interested, but they weren't. They knew that someone would buy them and if they ever wanted to create an affiliate system they could do that down the road without the cost of running the league. It was a smart move on their part.

 

Your replies very often go out of track.

- What I meant by 'they' was FIFA. Smart businessmen in MLS have no impact on FIFA agenda, it's the opposite. You believe FIFA won't give any strong pressure to USSF/MLS on pro/rel. I just said I hope they would which could result in huge impact on how they do business. If the impact is huge enough, smart business men should strongly consider the effect, risks and also benefits.

- Read the posting that I replied to why compared to J-league.

- I never said they wanted to buy it to implement pro/rel. Who know what the plan was for buying 'USL'. However you said "The fact that you said MLS would 'buy out' MLS 2 shows how far from reality you are.", so I was pointing out MLS was actually looking in 'buying out USL' which is the fact.

Even if MLS bought ULS, 'individual teams should've been required to pay one time entrance fee to MLS D1. Seems like you are not familiar with it. It's buying operating rights not the whole teams.

Absorbing D2 and implementing pro/rel might not hurt the overall revenue that much. It'll increase the footprint of the MLS as whole in US+Canada, also the values and revenue of D2 teams would suddenly increase by far. Complying with FIFA's agenda would increase future World Cup chance which would be huge boost to soccer in US and MLS.
More soccer fans would accept MLS as legit football league.

You just keep saying only what we have works and nothing else, but I disagree.

 

IF it were to ever work....

First Off, i'd like to state that I am NOT in favor of pro/rel.

However, IF there were to be pro/rel in the US soccer, it WILL NOT start with the MLS.

For those of you who are in favor of pro/rel- work on the grassroots level to get it started.

In almost all of sports very few rule changes take place at the highest level.

Look at the history of Instant Replay, the 2-point conversion, 3-point line, etc. They all have started in either minor leagues, or an "alternative league" like the USFL or ABA

about the only major rule change that i can think of that started at the top level was the Designated Hitter.


So, if you want to see pro/rel work, start local and go up from there. Look at the PDL. There are plenty of teams there to divide into 2 divisions "PDL premier" and PDL.

If fans take to it there, then the next logical step is to promote the winner of PDL into the D3 pro league (currently USL2). If that works then it can move up a level.

Like I said, I'm not in favor of it at all, but fans will understand it much better if it starts at the lower levels, and as/after it gains acceptence it moves up to the big league.

 

This can be managed by imposing promotion eligibility requirments in terms of stadium capacity/condition, financial status, etc. I believe Mexico is currently doing it.

 

so your fantasy world scenario where FIFA forces MLS/USSF to change their business structure and abide by FIFA rules or else they will lose a world cup...and then you turn around and suggest a DIRECT VIOLATION OF FIFA RULES.

 

That's the beginning, the goal is to have all the D2 teams eligible for D1 level.
FIFA would take that much compromise if MLS is willing.

 

I'm a little surprised that you expect DCU1996 to make sense.

 

wow, it MIGHT not hurt revenue THAT MUCH.
Too bad it would...hurt a lot. And MLS will never do it. They are going to increase their national footprint via expansion because they are a single entity franchise model. And also because they don't want to loose more money.

 

So there are several levels of your fantasy

FIFA is going to agree that it is OK to pro/rel due to finances not performance? That is what they would be sanctioning with this system you are advocating. Right now we are a very different system than other leagues so exceptions don't directly effect the rulings in other leagues...but you want FIFA to accept pro/rel with a 2nd division to be based on FINANCES NOT PERFORMANCE as the beginning of your compromise? Are you completely insane? Do you have any idea what would happen if FIFA agreed that you can pro/rel due to finances? That promoted teams have to pay the league and if they can't pay or don't have big enough stadiums they don't get it...FIFA allows this!!! Other leagues can't emulate us because they are not structured like us, it is not like 1 company owns all of EPL...but you could emulate that system in the rest of the world, and it would be a nightmare.

 

No, it MIGHT not. You never know the future.
It might be better to cap the D1 to say elite 24 and establish D2 with pro/rel, rather than over expanding to like 32 all cramped in D1 which would cause dilution of talents, poor products on D1 fields causing overall devaluing of MLS as a whole.

 

You are contradicting yourself immensely. You need to calm down.

"we are a very different system than other leagues so exceptions don't directly effect the rulings in other leagues.."

I don't see much problem setting requirement on stadium condition such as capacity and safety. Also, requiring one time promotion fee, and ensuring financial stability of the club so that it don't go bankrup in the middle of the season. In fact, I believe that's what Mexican league is doing right now besides(besides one time promotion fee). It's a start and better then before.
You get excited too easily.

 

You don't see a problem? Other than it being against FIFA regulations? Seriously man. You've got your knickers in a twist about MLS not following FIFA's pro/rel guidance, but you've got no problem with them violating their regulations for new leagues? Wow.

 

I thought you put me on your ignore list.

 

You were, but it was kind of pointless with 4door quoting all your posts.

 

Not really. Plenty of leagues limit promotion according to stadium criteria, and plenty have been (forcibly) relegated due to poor finances.

In some leagues it is possible to buy a league place - i.e a 3rd division club with money could buy the licence of a financially struggling 1st division team, and they'd swap places. It's not common, certainly at the top level but it does happen.

FIFA really doesn't have much say in how countries run their leagues.

 

FIFA: you should comply and implement pro/rel according to the guideline or else...

MLS: f*ck you, we are USA, We are different, f*ck off.

or

MLS: We'll start implementing pro/rel, but initially we would have set of requirements for the D2 teams on such as stadium conditions and financial stability to ensure success of our league and pro/rel implementation like our neighbor Mexican league.

Which one would work better with FIFA?

you guys are getting cheap man...

 

FIFA can't change the existing pro/rel set-ups, but they have said that any new pro/rels can only base promotion and relegation upon a team's performance on the field.

Update: Here's a quote from Blatter on the subject:

 

it comes down to a fantasy. A dream scenario where FIFA does something that they are not going to do.

 

fixed your post

 

FIFA is getting serious on pro/rel.

MLS is in huge violation of that principle although it's still in the process of expansion and grwoing. It takes money and put them in D1.

MLS owners better take that into the risk management plan.
I see FIFA would start applying strong pressure to MLS on that issue with hint of World Cup Card. Like I said I suspect that's what happened with Austrailia.

 

Speaking of Australia.. We're now 3 months past their October deadline.. How is that pro/rel thing going anyways? You would think there would be news of it by now. Or, could it be, that Australia was just paying FIFA some lip service while they were in town?

 

so I bet they don't get World Cup for sure

 

You two Yoshou and 4door get to easily overexited. Practically in every league* with a pyramid a promoted team must meet some requirements, yes, the team is promoted according to its performance on field, but if the team doesn't meet the requirements for higher division, it stays in the same division. You rarely hear of it, because usually promoted teams meet all the requirements (if they wouldn't, they wouldn't fight for the promotion in the first place). The requirements can be financial (no debt to players, meaning financial stabilty), stadium size etc to pretty banal (hot water in the lockerroom for visiting team, not only for the home team).


EDIT:* Truth to be told, I don't know how is this in Africa or Asia, so I'm talking about Europe only.