Pro/Rel Again (Prompted by USL for Sale)

I'd stop watching the EPL, Serie A, La Liga if they are not the highest level anymore.
I would watch where ever the highest level soccer at the time.

Why would a soccer fan in Atlanta care about MLS if he doesn't have a team in MLS and MLS is not the highest level of soccer, say around Mexican league level.

Pro/Rel broadens the footprint of the entire league.

Much much more chance to bring in the soccer fans in Atlanta to MLS if they have a team in MLS2 with possibility for promotion,

 

I would also add to that the influx of owner groups and sponsors to the sport if they knew that their team has a shot at being in MLS.

 

Presumably then, even with the current format you would watch the MLS if their teams were of EPL standard.

I'm guessing you would continue to watch the EPL if the standard stayed the same regardless of whether they had relegation or not.

Pro/rel broadens the footprint if the teams coming up are good enough to replace or improve on the teams going down. We've covered this extensively.

While I agree that having a team promotable to the MLS might attract higher attendances, if there was enough demand for a team, they would get even higher attendances simply by becoming an MLS expansion team.

Again, not as much sponsorship as a team that was going straight into the MLS via expansion. It's also arguable that a team that does not have guaranteed major league status would not be able to attract as lucrative or longterm sponsorship.

 

Pure nonsense. It assumes its conclusion, plugs it into the formula as a factor, and voila! "proves" itself using its own ass.

 

This thread is a circlejerk of retardation.

 

to be honest, it'd be easier to say thay a league with a salary cap will spend less than it would if it didn't have the cap.

The race to be competitive in an uncapped league will invariably lead to higher spending, but won't necessarily improve quality greatly. If you remove the anti-inflation measures from the league, the inevitible result will be wage inflation.

None of that has much to do with pro/rel though.


And the obvious problem remains in that MLS support isn't yet strong enough to allow certain clubs to be disadvantaged. The fans would desert them and they'd fold, putting the whole league at risk.

 

Thank you for coming to grips with the point I have been making since the first couple pages of this thread. Oh, wait. You're not the idiot I've been posting with. You're the gentleman from the UK who actually has a clue, and always brings something to the discussion, that even if I don't agree with, still makes sense. Thank you very much. Repped.


EDIT: You must spread republahblahblah...

Would someone be kind enough to Rep this gentleman for me? Thanks.

 

I Like to see MLS with relegation and promotion system, it makes things interesting. But the big question is, will the league survive with that kind of system? And every folks on therir roght mind knows it wouldnt. The league is just so infant to have that system, most regular american fans cannot digest the idea for now. It will kill clubs if MLS will do that, I read a post about RED BULL. If MLS has a PRO/REL system today, NY will be on second tier after spending millions for a stadium.
I saw clubs almost die with this kind of system in England, some clubs just can recover after a bad season. After a bad season they got religated, lost prime players coz they got clause on their contracts that prevents them from serving the club if ever the clubs get religated. Less ticket , merchandise sales means less revenue. Everything is going downward, perfect example of this is LEEDS UNITED. They were one of the better teams in whole EU, now you can find them on the 3rd tier of the English league. Newcastle I think will follow LEEDS on that path.

So I know PRO/REL is nice to see but its doesnt fit MLS yet. Maybe next time.

 

The US model would be a hybrid just like everything in MLS.

Pro/rel would only be between 2 divisions, no further.

Their would be a pro/rel playoff so it's not certain that a MLS team could be relegated they would have 1st/2nd leg chance.

In MLS2 every team would pay a $5 million franchise fee, and have a SSS expendable to 15,000 upon promotion.

 

I'm sorry, "would"? You don't know actually know any of this. Why are you posting your proposals as if they're an established fact?

 

Sillyhead! WSW believes that USL-1 is the future of soccer in the USA, and MLS is somehow shaking in its boots afraid of it. He doesn't accept any of the facts regarding this, nor has he attempted to listen to reason. However, this thread is in the "Fans" forum, which means he can come up with whatever bullcrap he wishes. This debate ended a long time ago, but he hasn't figured that out. Let him enjoy his fantasyland.

 

He's not. He's posting his ideas and countering the idiots who are against pro/rel but using "facts" that are completely unsubstantiated to try and support their claim. Facts like...

No one here knows how much a team would get for sponsorship but some people are stating their case as if their ideas are facts.

 

Well DUH! Why, isn't it obvious that the key to soccer nirvana lies in gigantic soccer markets like Charleston and Rochester? And really, MLS has been on its deathbed since Miami was contracted...according to people from Miami. People's desire to watch MLS isn't determined by the quality of play, or proximity to a team, it's all about pro/rel! Sending down teams like LA and New York and replacing them with teams from places like Austin and Charleston will make MLS the #1 league in the world. God you people are ignorant...

 

It's called common sense. If you are looking for a soccer team to advertise your organisation and you are willing to pay top dollar, you go to the team that gets the most exposure. Television ratings and attendances the world over tend to support that a team in the top tier generally gets more exposure than a team in the second tier.

What's more, in the example I was countering it was the difference between an imaginary Atlanta team joining a new MLS2 or going straight into MLS via expansion.

As for those "ideas" he's putting forth, they have been countered over and over in this thread.

And who said I was against pro/rel? Read the thread before leaping on here and making wild assumptions. I've already said more than once - pro/rel is fine, but you need enough clubs of a certain standard meeting certain criteria to fill more than one division and make it worthwhile. The US does not have that right now.

But these guys won't even discuss the steps needed to popularise the sport enough to make pro/rel a viable option.

 

And that's why it's all a waste of time. "Cart before the horse".

 

This is a Pro/Rel thread. Not a 'steps needed to popularise the sport' thread. I'm sure there are plenty of such threads.

I never said we need to have pro/rel right now. pro/rel is for long term plan and design when we have fairly strong MLS1 with around 20-24 clubs, and several moderate markets that can make up and start MLS2 so that we can eventually start pro/rel very conservatively.

 

You and common sense aren't even in the same zip code.

 

It was a debate about pro/rel and whether it could/should happen, what would need to happen to make it viable and what the advantages and disadvantages would be.

Save for a few people, I think most have come to the conclusion that it's not right for the MLS in the current situation and so there are so many variables and options out there that it may never become right or appropriate for US soccer.

You guys have basically disregarded the arguments against without adequately answering them and have moved on to organising this imaginary system. That's a bit like being in favour of farming sheep on mars and jumping straight into how best to transport them there.

My zip code lies in an area called "Constructive Debate". You might want to visit it sometime.

 

FIFA president Sepp Blatter said these laws would apply to all new leagues, including a second-tier league in Australia when it is created.

“The decision we made today does not affect the existing leagues but it will be a strong indication to these leagues to adapt to this principal,” Blatter said.

“And here in Australia, when I spoke with the leaders of football, they said they will introduce a second league.”


The second quote is directed to MLS....

 

Irrelevant. Blatter has nothing to do with MLS.

FIFA wants the US marketplace. FIFA is not going to attempt any punitive action against MLS. The 1994 World Cup, hosted by the USA, is still the highest attended World Cup, and that was with 8 fewer competing nations. If FIFA awards the 2022 World Cup to the USA, it will take place in stadiums holding 60-70K fans per venue. More ticket sales equals more revenue for FIFA. Take a look at the capacities for the '98, '02, '06, and '10 World Cups. This discrepancy is where the real money is. Also, the USA is the only nation that wouldn't have to build additional stadia to host a finals, as South Africa has been struggling to do. There is also a different atmosphere sportswise in America. We simply don't stand for the fan violence and hooliganism that is a widespread problem throughout the football world. A finals in the USA would be one of the most fan friendly, and yet hooligan tough. Where else but the USA do you find courtrooms and judges on duty during major sports events?

It boils down to this: Is FIFA worried about principle, or are they worried about money? If they are willing to throw away hundreds of millions of dollars, and great press and marketing, to force the USA into an unattainable situation that could mean the death of pro soccer in America once and for all, then yes, Blatter could "Force" MLS to impliment a Pro/Rel system with an undetermined second division and go to the August-May calendar. If not, then Blatter can't do a damned thing other than blatter.

Try again, WSW.

This isn't getting old for you yet? You keep putting out these arguments that are pointless, and you're like Wile E. Coyote, always chasing that Pro/Rel roadrunner. I hope you have a club card to ACME.

Good luck in your next attempt.

 

What laws? What are you talking about?

 

I think that MLS is undoubtedly here to stay. The threats of that are long gone. I dont think Red Bull would spend hundreds of millions on a stadium for a league that could collapse for any reason.(as horrible and devasting as some try to make pro/rel out to be it will not kill the whether or not it is implemented)

 

Promotion and relegation was a hot topic at today’s FIFA Congress in Sydney, where world football’s governing body approved changes to laws ensuring that teams could only be promoted and relegated on the basis of their sporting achievements, not monetary issues.

this was said back in May 2008

 

Are you talking about today, or May 2008?

Jesus Christ on a crutch, can you even make sense to yourself?

 

I was posting what the article said back in May 2008, but it still doesn't stray from the fact that pro/rel has been talked about in Australia and the A-league is more than willing to accept it. IN THE FUTURE.

In America the only argument is "MLS has to be like other US leagues". More power to you, keep on slowly raising the salary cap and maybe you will dominate CCL in 20 years