Preseason 2015

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by Soccer Doc, Jan 17, 2015.

  1. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Does that include Woodbury?

    Whether Burns can deliver another defender or not is a different question. And, based on recent performance, I share your skepticism on that.
    But, that's my point - what makes you think the two things are mutually exclusive? You think that Heaps tells Burns, "don't bother looking for a defender, because I want to see if Hall can do the job"?

    Pretty doubtful. It's more likely that Heaps will try to work with what he has while Burns tries to find an experienced back who can help.
    Yes, if you compare Tierney as a wing (rather than as a defender), then there's a whole different set of strengths and weaknesses. And, since we're pretty deep in midfielders and shallow in defenders, it's not too likely he'll be playing much wing, except perhaps when bringing in an extra defender to protect a lead.

    My point with Rusty is that while he was a superlative 1v1 defender, he didn't communicate well with the rest of the defense and that really undermined his value defensively.

    I played right back for the first time with a very skilled div. 1 OTHSL team and even though I wasn't very good at it, I was consistent and generally reliable - and because of that my extraordinary Scottish centerback was always ready to cover when got beaten. My lack of skill was rarely a problem because we functioned well as a unit. I see Tierney much the same way. The bottom line isn't about his individual strengths and weaknesses, it's about how well he can function as a link in defensive unit - and I think he does that pretty well (very few goals come as a main result of Tierney getting beaten 1v1, even though it does happen).
    No. But, I do get the sense (as I do every year at this time) that people see the teams making lots of changes and bringing in lots of new players and thinking those teams are likely to pass us by, because we're not making big upgrades.

    The history of the league has shown that cohesive systems, built over multiple seasons, are what is most effective in MLS. And, we rarely account for the fact that another year in essentially the same system with more or less the same players, should yield improved results purely from the fact that the players, coach and team get better at with more practice and familiarity.
    Completely agree.
    The way I remember that team, correctly or not, is that they were an exceptional midfield, with good finishers - and once the midfield got possession in the attacking half, they were tough to dispossess and very good and creating scoring chances from all of the midfielders as well as the forwards. As a result, most teams did their best to pressure us in our own end, since the team's weakest point IMO (regardless of the GAA) was the ability of the backs to work the ball out of the back under pressure. Heaps couldn't do it, Franchino couldn't do it, AJ wasn't much better and Parkhurst, being the only centerback with unskilled outside backs, either got it to Shalrie or tried to play it over the pressure.
     
  2. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do think that Heaps wants to see how Hall will do at RB. I do think that Heaps wants Burns to continue looking for defenders. I do not think that the search for RB or defenders is realistically over. I do not think that the odds of the Revs signing a RB or defender are any better or worse today than they were on day one of the off season. IMHO, those odds have always been very low.

    I think Heaps realizes this too. Hall's ability to sink or swim has nothing to do with Burn's ability to sink or swim. Hall is the bird in hand. Heaps knows this. Heaps has to make his plans based on what is known today, not what might happen. Hall will probably be able to stay above water at RB. I have almost no faith in Burns' ability to deliver on his task if his task is to identify, negotiate with, and sign an international talent capable of starting for the Revs who wants to be here

    This part made me think a little. There are two things going on. The Revs do one well. A lot of other teams do the other well.

    The Revs are good at building a team slowly, building continuity, developing a cohesive core. they are good at putting together a string supporting cast that just needs a star or two to bring it all together. They are not that good, Jones aside, at bringing in top level, difference making talent. The Jones acquisition, at best, came down to a coin flip.

    Other teams, like TFC, are good at bringing in top level, difference making talent. They are not good at building continuity and developing a cohesive core. TFC has seen a lot of turnover with very little time to succeed at many levels, but for this discussion it is also true of the top level talent. They seem to come and go too quickly. TFC never has them around long enough to see what the supporting cast should look like. The result is that the top level talent cannot do it all by themselves, bottom level players get frustrated and have no options, yop level players get frustrated and leave, and coaches turn over.

    LA has probably been the best at both sides of the approach. They sign talent and retain talent long enough to identify the right supporting cast, build cohesiveness and win.
     
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  3. burud111

    burud111 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    Connecticut
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    REVOLUTION 2015 Preseason Competitive Minutes Tally
    REVS 2, REAL SALT LAKE 1
    REVS 0, VANCOUVER 2
    REVS 0, REAL SALT LAKE 1
    REVS 1, RAPIDS 1 (*-Unsigned)
    220 - Bobby Shuttleworth (0.82 GA/90)
    210 - Jose Goncalves
    203 - Andrew Farrell
    200 - Jeremy Hall
    182 - Teal Bunbury
    180 - Kelyn Rowe
    173 - Andy Dorman (1 ASSIST)
    172 - Steve Neumann
    *168 - Timi Mulgrew (1 ASSIST)
    167 - Sean Okoli (1 GOAL)
    *164 - Marco Fenelus
    163 - Scott Caldwell
    *157 - Tyler Rudy

    150 - Donnie Smith
    150 - Daigo Kobayashi
    *147 - London Woodberry
    145 - Charlie Davies (1 GOAL)
    130 - Brad Knighton (2.08 GA/90)
    130 - Chris Tierney
    130 - Darrius Barnes (1 gm. injured)
    116 - Kevin Alston (2 gms. injured)
    94 - Juan Agudelo (1 ASSIST) (1 gm. lack of fitness)
    90 - Diego Fagundez (1 GOAL) (2 gms. with Uruguay U20s)
    *85 - Jacob Van Compernolle
    *85 - Yuzo Tashiro
    (1 ASSIST)
    *36 - Zachary Herivaux
    *3 - Justin Rennicks

    0 - Lee Nguyen (2 gms. with USMNT, 2 gms. injured)
    0 - Jermaine Jones (2 gms. with USMNT, 2 gms. injured)
    0 - Jerry Bengtson (on loan)
     
  4. Soccer Doc

    Soccer Doc Member+

    Nov 30, 2001
    Keene, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This a great example of the two rules on how to build a solid team i.e.--Rule (1) as above. Rule (2) It's smart tp follow Rule (1) :cool:
     
  5. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    Whether you think Rusty was a good communicator or not he was a good defender who generally made the defense better. I'd say that much of his "communication issues" came when we had weak defenders in the back with him, where he'd spend much of his time covering up for their errors (kind of like the Scotsman in your story). In the end, though, I'm not sure how much we're arguing about. We both agree Tierney isn't anything to write home about as a defender. You think that's ok if the other players can cover for him, I think we could improve as a team if we upgraded that spot. You think his poor 1v1 defense is acceptable because you don't think we give up too many goals as a direct result of that, I think we have problems because other players get pulled out of position helping him and our wide forward on that side has to spend a lot of time defending near his own box.
     
  6. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This probably includes us.

     
  7. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, it's a good thing "Mr. 4-5 moves" has already signed all the players we're going to sign before all this happened. I'd hate to be a team who needs a starter to fill a key role who was hoping to sign someone before the season starts.
     
  8. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #133 RevsLiverpool, Feb 23, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
    No - he hasn't signed yet so he doesn't count. I'm talking about bonafide starter potential. Someone to provide depth on the wings given they like Farrell at CB to replace Soares. If Woodbury or another trialist defender currently in camp signs then earns a starting job, I'll gladly buy you a beer. However, based on this...

    ...I will take a tall Sam's Summer please. :cool:
     
  9. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    - when Rusty was on the team, I thought he was best his first couple of years. After that, I think he developed an attitude that made him harder to work with. I remember that back in those days, most of the goals given up ended up with defenders either glaring or arguing with each other, or avoiding eye contact altogether. One of the centerbacks that Rusty played with (and didn't appear to be on the same page with IMO) was Mauricio Wright - hardly an untalented player.

    - my point about Tierney, and generally, is that a defender isn't just a sum of his skills. The more intangible factors are even more important - i.e., the most critical factor is how effective a defender is in the system, not how skilled he is. People criticize Tierney for being slow, for not being able to dribble, etc., but the fact is, the Revs play pretty good defense with him as part of it and the goals given up are rarely caused by his breakdown (compared to his partners, Goncalves, Farrell, Soares and Alston).

    - I agree with you that left back is a spot where we could significantly upgrade (I just think Tierney is overly-cricized).

    - I do agree that there is more pressure/responsibility on our wings because our outside backs aren't better defenders than they are. But, I don't think that's unusual in MLS, where most teams seek to defend with numbers.
     
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  10. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    Wright was a very skilled player but I think he was known as a pretty undisciplined player, on the Revs, the Quakes and on his national team. He wasn't on the same page with plenty of players and coaches. I don't think Tierney defends effectively on a team level. He's not a terrible defender. He's just not a good defender, just like he's not a really good wide midfielder. He's a player with a valuable skill that doesn't really do anything else overly well.
     
  11. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

    Mar 31, 2009
    So, we signed someone....

    http://nesoccertoday.com/?p=31974

    I read somewhere on the twittersphere that he might play some RB as well, which would make a lot more sense.
     
  12. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Roster compliance day is Monday, and the Revs have seven open spots. SMH...
     
  13. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

    Mar 31, 2009
    A lot of teams have open spots. Until the new CBA is signed, teams aren't going to tie their hands up.
     
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  15. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  16. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    So that's what's been going on for the last 15 or so years? We didn't want to tie our hands up because of the upcoming 2015 CBA armageddon? Bob Kraft, a man ahead of his time...
     
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  17. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And because 2014 was the year BEFORE the CBA was up, he goes all out with JJ. What a savvy business man.
     
  18. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  19. Minutemanii

    Minutemanii Member+

    Dec 29, 2005
    Abington MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not to change the subject but I also saw that name pronunciation chart. They have
    Andrew Farrell as pronounced: FAIR-ull. This is so annoying to me, this standard "Amearican" adding of a vowel after A's were there aren't any. It's Fah-rell, not Fair-ull. So annoying and just wrong! Ah... I vented.
     
  20. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
    It's pronounced Fronk-en-steen!
    [​IMG]
    It's pronounced I-gor
     
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  21. Minutemanii

    Minutemanii Member+

    Dec 29, 2005
    Abington MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ha ha ha !!! :)
     
  22. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Looks like he celebrated with red.
     
  23. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

    Mar 31, 2009
    Yeah, not a good tackle. While Heaps was hoping we'd be able to bring someone else on, it was certainly a red card worthy tackle. Not a great way to get things started, but hopefully he'll learn from it.
     

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