Oh, I totally agree with the logic. I just think those two sides will be devestated if they lose one or two key men. Our threshold is higher than that as we have shown over the last two seasons, and Chelsea have class players (Shevhcenko and Ballack as sleepers? that really should bail them out should Drogba and/or Lampard go down. Liverpool are stuffed without Gerrard and I think the same goes for Arsenal with Cesc and Van Persie. When Tevez settles down, he's a more than able cover for Rooney if needed and the drop from Ronaldo to his replacement isn't as incredible as that for either of those sides. Anyway, we'll see. Perhaps these clubs will make stars out of who is already there this season.
I think when you say they don't have no one to bail them out that is a little harsh. They have a number a nice players that can pop and do their thing at any given time. Surely they don't have one man to do the magic per sey but they have guys like Young, Agbonhalor, Carew. These guys can torment anyteam on their day. I would have also had put Stilian in that bracket but unforntunately he can't get his ass together.
I am afraid we'll see something similar to what hapenned in Spain last season. No one really able to pull away, as a result having to really concetrate on each internal game, and as a consequence early exits from Europe. One of the reasons I think Arsenal will naturally eventually disappear from the race is because of their brutal schedule in late March-early April when they play us, Liverpool and Chelsea in a span of 2 weeks or something like that, with 2 of those games being on the road. On top of that, there will most likely be FA Cup and/or CL games, and Arsenal is nowhere near deep enough rigght now to cope with this kind of pressure. Liverpool so far has shown very few weaknesses, but as we all know all teams go through slumps, especially Spanish ones, so it's just a matter of time before they slow down. Also, I believe Benitez is the weakest manager out of the top 3, that also has to factor in it, especially in head to head games. Chelsea is Chelsea. As long as they have Essien, Terry, Lampard and Drogba healthy, they'll win most of their games. The fact that they have Ballack out would only help them in my opinion, as they are better off without him anyways. So you can safely pencil them in for at least 80 points. And this year I think about 83 points would be a magic number. So it'll be close to the end, I just think (hope actually) that our early season struggles will help us in the long run, as we will have our main players (Rooney, Ronaldo, Saha) with less mileage than others and hopefully in better shape come spring, which would allow is to go on a run at the end.
i mean man united are not in trouble up top to be honest last they played it mostly without smith and rossi and then solskjaer came in and scored 11 goals but we replaced him with tevez if ur tellin me tevez can not score goals ur wrong because he did it last year so altogether united are gonna be as good as last year if not better because the youth that they brought. as for scholes i would drop him the next game put in carrick and hargreaves in the mid one is a machine and one is a passer , because scholes is not usin wat he s good at he s droppin to a defensive mid role and thats not wat he s good at
Must Spread... Wonderful write-up DS, must ask though, why do you feel that Wazza cant become that "all-round striker" - I personally reckon he can. He has already demonstrated his nous as a SS, and his scoring record has improved every season he's been with us, dips of form included. Also, people may question his finishing but, as players like Ruud, Ole, and Thierry have shown, finishing is a trait which can be learnt upon - whats more positive for Wazza is, those players' "conversion" into finishers came much later in their careers. Hence, I can definately see Rooney developing into a proper striker in the mould of Henry... EDIT - Also, when Ruud was out injured in 2004-05, and we had to go to a 4-3-3, with Giggs and Ronnie playing off Wayne as the no.9, we saw imho, the best of Rooney (perfect example - the 4-2 drubbing at Highbury), whats to say that it cant be done? Especially since our players only nominally play those positions which they are given at the start...
Not to try and speak for DS, but I think the real issue with Fergie trying to turn Rooney into an "all around" striker is that Rooney couldn't possibly by as good at "all around" as he already is at SS. As an analogy, Rio Ferdinand may be able to be a passable DM, but he'd never be world class like he is at CB.
When you bring up Cesc temperment, I've personally never really seen his standard of play drop after bust ups on the pitch. If anything they make him play better. I feel that petulant edge is what he uses to even the score in terms of toughness and his physical size. He is definately a tough player by the way. Not a Roy Keane of course, but he's no pushover at all. He can hold his own. Now, how that translates into his teammates is another story. Im curious as to why they choose to start Adebayor. Even if you want to ease Eduardo into the league Adebayor will cost you points eventually.
Well we did pay £20 [has it already risen to £27 mil?] for Rooney, so he should be able to play anywhere right stud? No but seriously, I think Rooney has the ability to do be a world class all around forward. Even though it was only 45 minutes against Reading, he played very well as the 9. He seems as if he's catching on quickly. All in all, I think Rooney could be a world class 9 and 10.
Hmm, I can see where you are coming from, but (sorry for repeating my point) imho, the best I saw of Rooney was when he played as a no.9 when Ruud was injured in 2004/05. Also, the fact that we are playing our pseudo-system means that Rooney will only nominally play that position....
Thanks for agreeing with me PS - Sorry for going off-topic, but I've been meaning to ask you this for quite a while, how do you rate Anderson and Pato as all-round talents? who do you think is the more complete player? Again, sorry for going off-topic, and sorry for being blunt, but if you could answer my question Benni, I'd be very grateful ...
I think Rooney made great strides last season, both playing on the left and playing by himself up top. Maybe Fergie reckons that it is better for the team for Rooney to play at 9 or 11 where he's only a 7 or 8 instead of 10 where he's a 10.
Maybe, but if Rooney is anything, he's selfless for the team, he would not mind one jot where he plays, as long as he does. Also, we're talking about United here, not a one-man team, whats to say, the loss of Rooney as 10, wont be off-set from the emergence of Ronaldo and Anderson as "pseudo-10s"? Also, on top of that, I just think Rooney has that special little "something" which allows him to play in any outfield position, and still be the best player on the pitch...
Uh, Rooney has many times been frustrated or dour when playing away from SS, although this appeared to diminish once he got better at those other roles last season. Also, I don't think Rooney can play any outfield position and be the best player on the pitch. I don't think his tackling and range of passing make him superior anywhere in a non-attacking role.
I dont think Anderson is an all around player at all. He's a dynamic 10. Pato, for his age is an excellent all around player. He has pretty much all the attributes to play any attacking position. Pace, excellent dribbling, good reading and movment, good heading, good shooting and passing skills. During the las u20 tourney, he was originally played as a 9 but because of a poor midfield he dropped deep often to make things happen and he did well. I was wishing we got him. He's someone that you definately pick up and dont let other teams sniff around.
OK, lemme rephrase that, when Rooney plays uo top WITH SUPPORT, he thrives, when he doesnt (a la WC2006) he struggles. What I meant by the rest of the paragraph, was that before he was coached, you could tell that Rooney would have made it as a world class footballer in any outfield position, once he was started to be coached, his coaches felt his talents were best served in the SS position. Sorry for the ambigiuos post, my bad...
Ah, thanks for that mate, so by that analogy, Pato would = Ronaldo, and Anderson would = Kaka, if we were to use the current CBF team as a template? Who do you think is the bigger talent? Or is it harder to compare them, as they play different positions in different styles? Again, thanks for replying, and sorry for going off-topic....
I think both of them will be superstars, but Pato is going to Italy to learn his trade so I feel that is an advantage over Anderson who is here with us, and probably wont see too many minutes. Pato will probably be the bigger talent because every team needs a class 9. Especially Brazil in this next cycle to the next WC. I'd say Anderson is like a younger Ronaldinho (Japorea 02) and Pato is just a young player with the potential to be his own player. Complete upfront.
I'm not sure if there will be a 80-point build up by the end of the season for any team. The reason why I think the big four will be involved in the title race late will be because the league has become a bit more balanced. The teams outside the big four have become stronger too. Now it's much more difficult to beat the likes of Everton, Aston Villa, and Tottenham, and now even the likes of Manchester City, and Wigan can do damage. Add to that the concentration on Europe by the big four (It's early to say who exactly will be gunning for Europe more than the other)
Carew is not a striker to pin any hopes on. He isn't prolific, creative or particularly dangerous on a bad day - he's not a Viduka, for example, who can be having an atrocious game and look like a lazy waste of space for 70minutes of a game and then take down a ball out of the air with sublime control, turn and shoot it into the net on the volley, or some such, which is the key difference between he and the strikers you get at the clubs I expect will end up above Villa - even on a bad day many of them are dangerous. Villa don't have a single player like that. Young and Agbanlahor are good on good days and anonymous during bad ones. Just my opinion, of course. We'll see, you may have me eating humble pie come May. Good point about Arsenal. That may break them or it may have that side come of age if they come through that period triumphantly. Liverpool's start to the season has been ridiculously overblown. They played two relegation-level teams, a Chelsea not at their best and a Villa side they should have left with a draw if not for some atrocious officiating. That is not enough to convince me of anything. Let's see how they do at some of the proper away grounds around the country first before saying they have no weakness.. Chelsea guarantee a winning streak of at least 5 games once or twice through the season and I will reiterate that the start to the season means next to nothing for them or ourselves as we have form and experience as a guide and recent history tells us what these teams are like over a season and in both instances, the things that made these sides so able remain at the club. Not only that, both sides have so many more players to bail them out than the other two and that's the biggest factor for me. We have match winners all over the attack and they will more than likely bail others out when they are not playing well in a game. I haven't ruled him out of becoming an all-encompassing forward, I just asked whether it is the optimal way to use the player. There's a lengthy post in one of the Saha vs. Ruud threads about how Rooney played in that 4-3-3. It was not #9 play at all. He played behind the two wing-forwards and it worked brilliantly, when asked to play as a proper line-running #9 for England we saw the massive difference that highlighted all the things Wayne couldn't do in the position. He's developed a lot since then but there's still a massive difference in Wayne the SS and Wayne the CF. He has age and coaches who know what they're doing on his side, however, and Ole will help him a great deal with box-play and positioning, so it's certainly doable, but the question still remains, is it optimal use of the player? Cesc is distinctly worse when riled. I am surprised you think it 'fires him up' a key tactic to why Arsenal have that soft label is that not only do they not like it 'up em' they are also put off their game big time when put in such abrasive scenarios and Cesc is susceptible to it as well. I've never once said Cesc is soft. He doesn't roll around like a sap when clattered, but it does put him off his game if the player doing so is tenacious and persistant.. a Robbie Savage, for example.. As long as Arsenal continue to win, Wenger's doing very well to slowly integrate Eduardo. I wish we were in such a position with our new signings.
I don't know about that .. I'm not saying Arsenal will take the world by storm this season or anything .. But looking at the squad, well, its thin but doesn't really lack depth .. We don't have a rigid formation, like Chelsea or LPool or even you guys, where if someone gets injured, we need a player made just for that position to replace the injured one .. We have a team composed of players who can play in different positions . .They might not be too good at their secondary position, but still adequate .. For example, Flamini .. He's not a great player but slot him in as DM, RB, LB, he can do the job very well .. And he can score some important goals as well .. Gilebrto, who is a DM but can play as CB pretty effectively .. Toure, who's a CB but can play RB and DM .. Rosicky, who can play as LAM, CAM, RAM very effectively ..[NOTE: I say LAM and not LW] Hleb, same as Rosicky .. RvP, who can play on the wings or upfront .. Eduardo, who is a striker, but very comfortable on the flanks as well .. Sagna, who is primarily a RB, can play at CB too .. Our new signing Diarra, supposedly plays well at both DM and RB too .. Gallas, who can play anywhere across the backline .. Walcott, though still not effective enough, can play at RW and as a striker .. Eboue, who can play at RB and RW[his crossing is pretty good] .. The only first-team players who have a fixed position in the team are Cesc at CM, Adebayor as a striker and Clichy at LB .. But there's Bendtner, who can play that Adebayor role pretty effectively .. Rosicky or Hleb can easily slot in Cesc's position .. Other talented players in the team include Denilson [CM or DM], Diaby [CM or SS], Traore[LB], Senderos[CB only], Djourou[DM,CB,RB] .. I don't know what you can really make of it .. But of course, an injury to Eboue could mean one less player at both RB and RW .. I'm sorry about talking so much here, but thought I should clarify the post .. I didnt' know if you were talking about the depth in the squad or the age of our players .. And about Cesc, he's no pushover and if he does get pushed over, he can be pretty dangerous, with tackles and with passes ..
Hmm, like I've said to VR, I can see where you are coming from, but I just think he has it in him to do it, and like I said, he is improving in every showing he has, as a no.9. I always thought that Giggs and Ronaldo were playing off Rooney in that 4-3-3? Depends on how you read and interpret the play, I guess. I think its a tad bit unfair to use his England WC06 performances as an example of him not working as a no.9, seeing as he was hopelessly unfit at the time. Moreover, his performances against Roma away and Milan at home, showed ample proof of how far he has come as a no.9. Especially against Milan, where I thought he was fantastic...