Premier League 2019-20 Assignments and Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by balu, Jul 20, 2019.

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  1. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Just more of the slippery slope with VAR. I agree that in the PK scenario it's easy, as they are reviewing and that makes it easy to correct. But calling it mistaken identity on SPA at midfield is a much bigger stretch, as he didn't mistake the identity, but mis-idenitfied one cautionable foul and missed another. More fair, sure, but really doesn't fit the protocol as I understand it. Becomes more of the mission creep inherent in having opened the genie bottle. (Though I continue to guess that the most likely formal add would be GK v CK--an objective, meaningful decision that can generally be quickly made with little controversy.)
     
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  2. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Championship Playoff Semifinal Second Leg

    Wednesday 29 July 2020

    Brentford v Swansea City
    CHRIS KAVANAGH
    Dan Cook and Sian Massey-Ellis
    Fourth Official: David Coote

    Thursday 30 July 2020

    Fulham v Cardiff City
    PAUL TIERNEY
    Ian Hussin and Darren Cann
    Fourth Official : Graham Scott

    The big guns are out.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting that Kavanagh keeps his trio for one match but Dean's pair of ARs go with Tierney.

    Wonder when the last match either did without VAR. Could be interesting.

    Oliver or Pawson for the Final seem most plausible options to me.
     
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  4. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    From a column in the Guardian today which was a post mortem on the Premier League Season:


    “But definite improvements can be made. The Premier League post-lockdown has featured a series of mistakes. At the heart of the problem lies a situation where referees, a tight circle, are essentially invigilating their pals, and this has led to errant decisions not being overruled.

    If VAR is to win over the naysayers there needs to be a separation between on-field referees and those operating out of Stockley Park. Otherwise, VAR risks becoming another example of footballing cronyism.”

    I have always harbored this particular fear about VAR usage in England. Interesting to see what happens in the new season. I suspect with everything swirling around the game that not much will change for ‘20-‘21.
     
  5. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    #1905 RefIADad, Jul 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
    Not surprisingly, Brentford’s appeal to reverse the Rico Henry send off from the Swansea first leg was successful. Henry will play in Leg 2.

    I do wonder if having Dean’s ARs with Tierney is a signal that Mike Dean may be retiring. I know he made it pretty clear on Peter Crouch’s podcast that he had at most next year.
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But why wouldn't Tierney just have ARs he's comfortable with for such a big game?

    I want to be clear that I wasn't suggesting anything. It just seemed noticeable given one trio held and one duo held. It could mean anything. Also, how much were they "Dean's ARs" throughout the year? I could be wrong, but I don't think that was the case.

    Could just be a weird quirk.

    As for Dean retiring, you would hope and think that there would be some sort of announcement before such a decision. Maybe that's just not the English way, though.
     
  7. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    If he was retiring and they were willing to let someone repeat the FA Cup assignment, they missed an opportunity.
     
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  8. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Please don't think I was implying anything regarding your post. The idea about Dean retiring was mine and mine alone. If you felt I was implying you were thinking that, my apologies. I wouldn't have even thought about it if I hadn't listened to that podcast. It was pretty clear that Dean was looking at this year and maybe next year before calling time on a distinguished career.

    I would also hope that 1) there would be a more formal announcement about Dean retiring if he is and 2) that if the FA knew he was retiring that he would be selected for the FA Cup final as a suitable retirement gift. I haven't seen an announcement for the fourth official, so maybe he'll be the fourth. Isn't it something of a tradition that retiring MLS officials serve as the fourth on an event like MLS Cup or the All-Star game?
     
  9. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    PL Referees are paired with five different ARs in a season, with whom they officiate matches (ARs are only at the side of three different referees a season).

    The trio Tierney - Hussin, Cann for instance handled the Manchester United - West Ham match last Wednesday.
     
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  10. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    I would like to see Attwell handle the final, certainly the most talented non-UEFA Elite referee here.
     
  11. Pelican86

    Pelican86 Member

    United States
    Jun 13, 2019
    Nice advantage call after the Brentford keeper got bumped (but caught and held the ball) to allow a quick counter-attack that led to a Brentford goal to make it 1-0 in the 2nd leg.
     
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  12. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Watching the replay as I type this. Through 65 minutes, I thought Kavanagh and crew were on their games. That first half was fun to watch. Lots of end to end action with the right balance of letting them play and calling the fouls to keep the game under good control. Kavanagh played another really good advantage in the 64th minute that led to a really good Brentford save.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Atkinson has the EFL Playoff Final.
     
  14. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Not an opinion shared by many other observers, though. So many mistakes through his career, resulting in being demoted from Premier League and removed from FIFA list. He still seems to be susceptible to that and the players don't seem to have the same confidence in him as they do in several of the others.

    PH
     
  15. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    #1915 RefIADad, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
    Excellent call on the penalty for Arsenal on all fronts. Not DOGSO, but a clear penalty. If it was DOGSO, it was a send off despite what the commentators incorrectly said.

    EDIT - Really good first half from start to finish by Taylor. Good PI caution on Mount as he was getting frustrated late in the first half, and a good spot on the foul late in the first half that was really close to the penalty area line. Taylor has been on his game through 45 minutes.
     
  16. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Taylor sent off Kovacic for a 2ct. The foul was maybe careless at best. Definitely ended up leading to issues next to the technical area 2 mins later.
    Taylor’s management skills on full display...
     
  17. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    And this is why I rate Oliver higher than Taylor. He’s more consistent and a better game manager. Taylor can be great and then not so great.
     
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  18. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    The last three times Arsenal and Chelsea competed for a domestic cup (2017 FA Cup Final, 2017 Community Shield, 2020 FA Cup Final), Chelsea played with ten men. Twice, Taylor was the referee (both FA Cup Finals).

    (I'm just stating facts and not suggesting anything beyond that.)
     
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  19. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    @Pierre Head it would be helpful if you wrote factually correct information when you comment.

    Attwell himself asked to be recategorised the National List. He was not demoted. Attwell had to persuade Riley to put him in the National List, not the other way around. He wanted a break from the high pressure he was under, with the media quite unfairly at him after what happened in the infamous Watford - Reading game (when an experienced FL AR shouts in the micro "it's a goal, it's a goal, I'm 100% sure" I don't really know what you expect a referee to do). He was ready to quit refereeing altogether, by the way.

    It's simply not true that his performances were poor - he was high up the merit table when he asked to be removed from the Select Group. UEFA had just given him a Europa League début, he'd handled the U19 EURO Final and they were ready to promote him to 1st Cat. If you look at even some managers reactions to his 'demotion', they said he was a good referee and were disappointed by his 'demotion'.

    David Elleray pushed him too early and that was the result.

    It's a question of taste but having watched eg. both Kavanagh and Attwell in UEFA matches, it's not even close who is the more charismatic leader on the pitch and arouses more trust from the players. No visible problems for him in the top-six Chelsea - Arsenal game, either, which he handled well.
     
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  20. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    #1920 Pierre Head, Aug 2, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
    So he's better than Kavanagh? Damning by faint praise here!

    Fact: Arsenal was not a top-six team when this game was played, and were not in the top-six for most of the 2019-2020 season, finishing in 8th place.

    All this aside, it looks like PGMOL agreed more with me than with you anyway, since Atkinson and not Attwell was appointed to the match in question.
    FWIW, I don't think he is a poor referee overall, just not yet ready to be given such a critical match, in this case the match with the largest effective payout in the world.

    PH
     
  21. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
  22. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for posting these!

    I think I'm fine with yellow on the first. He realizes his mistake at the last moment and sort of tries to mitigate the damage that would be done. And the contact is relatively low. Given the occasion and time of match, without it being clear SFP, I think this is the decision football expects. This foul in a physical 4-0 league game? Sure, red card. Here? Just not enough to justify it.

    The second one is the toughest for me. It looks like red and it feels like red. But you never really get to see the point of contact of the foul, there doesn't seem to be a lot of damage, and even the Brentford players--while certainly hoping for more--seem resigned to the notion that it's a yellow card in this match.

    Third one for me is definitely yellow. First glance looked really awkward and bad and I was expecting to say this was the worst. But there's just not enough there for red. More clumsy and awkward--after nearly 100 minutes--than anything else and his studs are never exposed or boot truly raised. Fine with this one.
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Will be interested in seeing a more in-depth analysis of the VAR changes, but essentially it looks official that the three major changes are: A) EPL will only have 3 subs next season B) VAR will have OFRs for subjective decisions, and C) ARs will now follow the appropriate VAR protocols that are used in the rest of the world.

    No change to the use of offside "technology" re: VAR.

    But again, given a lot of the other "news" here is just a reiteration of IFAB/LOTG changes, it would be interesting to see a good in-depth report of all this.
     
  25. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Not sure how much we trust the Daily Mail, but an article from there (sent to me via forwarded newsletter) shows that the Premier League will not use the offside lines for next year.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...stop-drawing-offside-lines-VAR-decisions.html
     

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